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Matthew 1:21? Saved from habitual sinning?

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Performance oriented religion attempts to read Matthew 1:21 as stating that Jesus came to save people from living a lifestyle of sin: 

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

You will hear religious people say, "Jesus saves us FROM our sins and not IN our sins." Am I to conclude that the above verse implies that Jesus came to save people from habitual sins as religion claims?  Jesus came to save His people (Jews in view in Matthew 1) from habitual sins and transforms them into occasional sinners?  Instead of sinning much is to see people transformed into sinning less? That's what Matthew 1:21 is teaching? That was what the cross accomplished? 

Question, did Jesus come to save those “dead IN sin” according to Ephesians 2 or those who “habitually sin”?  Was it "dead in sin" to be quickened to only be able to occasionally sin? Jesus work at Calvary fell short of perfection? God is pleased with occasional sinners? Only religion reads words back into a verse nowhere stated as they do in Matthew 1:21.  
The religious people who emphasize the word “FROM” in Matthew 1:21 need to realize that the same Greek word is also translated “IN” 6 times in the KJV as well. Also, why would we assume "from" implies a person from going from "habitual" sinning to "occasional" sinning? I would assume "from" would imply completely and entirely and not habitually. 

Saved FROM death habitually, occasionally, or entirely? We are said to be "delivered FROM the Law" (Romans 7:6) but is that habitually, occasionally, or entirely? Who shall separate us FROM the love of God? Was that habitually, occasionally, or entirely? I simply fail to see that when the word "from" is being described from God's point of view of a work He accomplished that habitual or occasional is implied. What God redeemed us FROM is permanent and perfect. Matthew 1:21 was not talking about us sinning less. God came to save us FROM our sins entirely.

The word "from" is also translated 10 times as “for” but I still do not see a salvation from habitual sinning to occasional sinning lifestyle. The Pharisees would not be defined by religion as habitual sinners so did they need saving from a habitual life of sin? If religion is correct then Jesus only came to save Pharisees from unbelief because they were not by how religion defines it, "habitual sinners." 

Seems like a waste of time to hear Jesus coming into the world to save us "from our sins" when not everyone was living a habitual life of sin at that time as how religion defines habitual sinning. Paul described himself as "blameless" when touching the righteousness which is in the law (Phil. 3:6). Did Paul need Jesus to save him from a habitual lifestyle of sin when he claimed to be blameless? Was it Paul's desire to become an occasional sinner? Paul should not have counted his righteousness as but dung when religion today places such high importance upon such a lifestyle. Religious people are obsessed with their performance. If Matthew 1:21 is stating that Jesus came to save people from living a sinful life then clearly it was not all men in view because some were blameless when it came to law. Would Enoch have needed Jesus to save him from a habitual sins?

I read of a Jesus who came “for our sins” (1st Cor. 15:3; Gal. 1:4; 1st John 2:2; 4:10), but religion prefers tricking the eyes into seeing, "from a lifestyle of sinning." It bothers the religious heart to believe that a person can be a habitual sinner that is enjoying the grace, love, and the forgiveness of God. They want "from our sins" to mean one no longer living in habitual sins.  Their focus upon performance and habitual sinning as proof one is not saved is why they are miserable people who are easily rattled. They are fault finders in others proving they are very hard on themselves.

Can a person who is living in sin be happy? I see the Corinthians as happy. Can a person be religious and be happy? Now that is something I do not see in the bible because a law/sin oriented mind is bondage. The Galatians turned to performance and lost their joy (Gal. 4:15a). I know that those who are sin conscious tend to be unhappy people. This could be either those who seek to gratify their sinful desires or those who are trying their utmost to not gratify their sinful desires. It has much to do with the mindset. 

I believe in living my life to the fullest. Does that imply that I am running around sinning with a high hand? Not at all! I know I have died to sin. I know that I have died to the Law. I have been made FREE (habitual or occasional) from sin. If speed limit laws were removed then I would not be driving my car obsessed with the speedometer. I simply can drive my car freely without fear of law enforcement pulling me over for breaking any speed limit laws. I certainly would not join some local fundamentalist church that would say, "You are not under the 55mph law but the police expect you to still obey it and we are here to enforce it" as that would still have me living "speed limit" conscious and in bondage to some law. Religious people would still be obsessed with the speedometer because they know that the old law that formerly existed said, "55 mph." The moment they drive 35mph is when they feel they are not doing enough and become fearful. The moment they drive 60mph is when they begin looking around in fear as well. Their eyes remain glued to the speedometer.

Does that mean that I do not sin because I know I have died to sin/law? Of course not, but I know that I am forgiven, my sins taken away, and God is NOT imputing a single sin to my account ever! Why would I live looking for speed limit laws? Why would I live sin conscious? I live in the reality that I am a new creation and no longer view myself before God in my old grave clothes. I see that I am loved infinitely and walk in such knowledge.  Love is the fulfilling of the Law. Again, I do not pay attention to the laws abolished but to the law of love. Love says, "Driving this fast is dangerous and I do not want to risk the death of another" and I adjust my speed accordingly. Love is now in action and not law. There is no fear in love. You want to experience fear then the local church should suffice.

Love is NOT what I hear in religion. They often attack the very word. Preach the unconditional love of God and it works like a flushing agent as all the religious people will come running out to attack it.  Don't believe me? Go to a bible forum and simply quote verses on the love of God and watch religious people qualify it.

Walking in love requires no religion. I do not need some religion to say, "Your hair must be this length. You must shave. Your skirt must be 2 inches below your knee. You must read your bible daily. You must be in church every time the door opens. You must join ministries in the church. You cannot listen to rock music. You cannot remove lint from the opposite sex clothing. You cannot use profanity. You cannot have a glass of wine. You cannot dance. You cannot play cards. You cannot gamble (even though the pastor invests in risky stocks). You cannot attend movie theaters. You cannot smoke. You cannot mix swim. You cannot watch Hollywood movies." This is NOT the grace/love walk but a walk of death/bondage that leaves you constantly feeding from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.  Love does not create such rules but many local churches do.

Love does not need a rulebook. Be careful of the phony religious love that attempts to define it their way. Love does not tell you to not listen to rock music but your local religion does. These are simply laws imposed upon you that will frustrate you because deep down many songs you like do not seem to pose any threats at all. Somehow that drum beat is from Satan to make you a weak and frothy Christian that only spews from the lips of religious people. Somehow, God only likes piano and organ music even though organ music was once considered of the devil by fundamentalists many years ago. Being told that you MUST be in some religious building on Sunday is why it is often an unpleasant experience for many as religion misquotes/misinterprets the verse in Hebrews about "not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together" that had NOTHING to do with Sunday church attendance or to prove you are saved nonsense.  

You might be reading your bible 1 hour per day but if I were to say, "Unless you read 1 hour a day then you are not saved" is when your bible reading will become an unpleasant chore where you might doubt your salvation if you happened to daydream through what you read in your devotions. Funny thing is that nobody in Paul's day were reading the bible daily because there wasn't any bible yet. You will not find Paul's listeners with a pocket NT with the words of Christ in red. The Gentiles did not walk around with pocket scrolls. So where does this command to read your bibles daily because that is what a true believer would do come from? 

I remember Dr. Ian Paisley back at Bob Jones University Bible Conference years ago saying that if you are not reading your bibles from Genesis to Revelation each year then you are backslidden???? No, Dr Paisley had a religious mindset that he was trying to impose upon others. It comes down to what a particular person passions or beliefs are that determines much of the rules you hear. I was told that if you did not have a passion for the bus ministry was to question your salvation. The salvation was questioned of females who did not wear head coverings in church services is something too I heard from the lips of people. Females who wore pants had their salvation questioned. I was at a supposed grace church where the pastor told me that they doubted the salvation of a certain young man because he did not do his devotions in the morning with them as they shared a home. Religion is insanity.

To withhold forgiveness, love, and kindness would not be a grace walk. A life that mocks, hates, and condemns people is not a grace walk. A person who embellishes or uses lies to advance his/her beliefs is not the grace walk. A life that retaliates against another is not the grace life. A life that ignores the needs of others is not a grace walk. A life that is mindful of sin is not a grace walk. A life that is critical and judgmental of others is not the grace walk. A life that only seeks to find faults in others and expose them to others is not the grace walk. A life that mixes a little bit of law for assistance is not the grace walk. Using slander to destroy the teaching of another is not the grace walk. A life that says that oneself is unworthy, sinful, and pathetic is not the grace walk. This mindset is death. There is no life and peace in it. Love cannot flow through such a mindset as it is unable to think whatsoever things are lovely, true, and kind. 

The grace walk is not, "I must do my best to sin less." The grace walk is not, "Let my psycho-analyze my life for things I believe God hates." The grace walk is not, "Oh God, reveal my secret sins" as religious people love quoting David in the OT. The grace walk is not, "Oh God, where are you? Did I do something wrong? Are you angry and displeased with me?" The grace walk is not, "I better make sure my sins are all confessed and that I am not willfully sinning right now before I partake of the Lord's Table so God does not kill me" as that is performance oriented religion twisting the passage in 1st Corinthians 11. I have already done a blog on Partaking Unworthily that religion twists.

Grace walk would be your eyes off of what would be defined as rebellion to the Law (55mph). Why? The strength of sin is LAW!. The reason why we struggle is due to our trying to conform to law (Mosaic or religious). When a pastor says, "If you are saved then you will be doing this" is when you might discover the struggle to do what he defined as "this." People struggle to believe because they are told that they must do this thing called believing. This is why they wonder, "Did I believe enough? Did I believe the right way? Did I believe the right message?" They have redefined what believing actually is and now they struggle with it. Instead of believing that they are loved, accepted, and forgiven is them trying to believe to get loved, accepted, and forgiven. 

Believing now becomes the one work they must do to get such things from God. Instead of believing the already true news concerning them is them trying to do this thing they call believing so that God will exchange their current so-called bad news with good news as that is the religious gospel. The bad news actually was, "You WERE (before Calvary) but NOW (after Calvary)." You can live in the false reality of the "were" that religion preaches or you can live in the reality that the gospel has brought you in "now."

You were "in times past" (before Calvary) but "now" (after Calvary). Religion still prefers reading "you were" as implying before you believed and the "now" as after you believed. Read Ephesians 2 (the whole chapter) carefully and notice that "in times past" clearly implied before Calvary and not when you believed. Gentiles were in "times past" aliens that referred to the old system that has passed away with the death of the testator. Read the chapter carefully. By grace we have been saved (verse 5) with no mention of doing anything. Grace is experienced and enjoyed through faith but many are still experiencing what feels like alienation as that was removed in Christ (Col. 1:20-21). Only the ignorant, the blind of heart, and the darkened mind experience the lie of alienation THROUGH unbelief (see Ephesians 4:18 "through the ignorance (not faith) in them" as they believe the lie and not the truth that there is no alienation), and only those experience the warm heart of God, already forgiveness of sins, and grace THROUGH faith. Faith does not make it a reality but faith beholds the already reality. It is either enjoy the already grace bestowed "through faith" or wander about thinking that God is angry and still distant from you "through ignorance" of an already truth that your ignorance refuses to accept.

Guilt often plagues the religious mind. The reason for guilt is because you consciously believe that you have failed. You believe you are in rebellion. Guilt has its proper place but majority of the emails I receive are people feeling guilty for the wrong reasons. If I wronged my neighbor then guilt is natural. If I said something harsh against a person then guilt is natural. If I violate the Mosaic law then guilt is NOT natural. "But should I not feel guilty when I sin against God?" You mean, should I not feel guilty when I do not obey the rules of my church and the OT laws? No you should not! You will have 613 reasons to feel guilty if you submit to the law. If you offend in one point will make you GUILTY OF ALL and that demands intense guilt. If offending in one point makes you guilty of all then did Jesus come to make us occasional sinners???

There is a reason Jesus came into this world and Hebrews 10:2 shares that there "remains no more conscience (guilt) of sins." The only problem is that religious people feel guilty for sins that keep repeating proving they do have a conscience of sins and many have a seared conscience (see my blog on seared conscience). If you often feel guilty then you have a religious mindset.

Now imagine being told, "If you are saved then you will not habitually sin." The one thing that will plague your mind is your repeat sins. You will be aware of a heart that now feels cold and dead. You will find certain sins still plaguing you. You will be worried about your motives. You will be questioning what are sins or not. You will question if you are doing enough for God. You are not free but now in bondage. You can lie to us or even yourself that you are not a habitual sinner but the rest of us know you are full of manure. You are not living the grace walk but the religious walk instead. You are unhappy, agitated, and often hard on yourself. Welcome to the world of religion. Your religion can be seen in how you talk to your kids and all the rules you impose upon them. It can be seen in how harsh you discipline them. It can be seen in how you talk about others. I can spot a religious person by how they talk about homosexuals or even Roman Catholics. I can spot a religious person by how they talk about themselves.

Grace frees us from an ungodly mind. How do you define an ungodly mindset? Ungodly mindset to males often conjures up, "Do not think sexual thoughts." You ask a female what an ungodly mind implies to her is often to hear something different. Often asking that question reveals what that person is struggling with because of how they answer it. What was the first thing that popped into your mind when I asked that question? Was your answer something you are currently struggling to overcome?  

People wrongly assume that grace saying no to all manners of ungodliness is the same as Jesus telling the woman caught in adultery, "Go, and sin no more." Jesus simply was saying to her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and (the) sin (adultery) no more (not even a single act of it again)." Jesus was letting her know that not even He condemns her but He also was not telling her to go back to what she was doing either. He was not saying, "Neither do I condemn you: Go back to what you were doing." He was saying, "Neither do I condemn you: Go, but not back to your adulterous affair anymore." Jesus definitely was not also saying, "Neither do I condemn you: Go, and stop habitually sinning from here on out." Jesus was only telling her that He was not condemning her even though caught in the very "act" of adultery and to go but not back to the affair she was having. 

Religion today would have exposed her the same way the Pharisees did. She would have to first confess to her husband and then before the congregation by publicly apologizing before a group of people who would be looking down upon her for something only a few might have known about. Religion knows not love even though the love they have comes in the form of public humiliation. They would throw stones of shame upon her but that is the religious walk and not the grace walk. I was in an independent fundamental baptist church years ago where teenagers had to publicly apologize for fornicating before the congregation. Why did I need to hear about it? If only 2 people knew about it then why would 1000+ members need to hear about it? Religion is disturbing. So much for the love that HIDES a multitude of sins as this church exposes a single act for all to hear. Since when did the IFB become the FBI?

The truth is, if that woman was taken in the very act of adultery again would be to hear the same words from the lips of Jesus, "Neither do I condemn you." There is NO condemnation in Christ Jesus. If you want condemnation then the local church should suffice. Jesus was a man who did not retaliate but religion today teaches that Jesus is now a person that will retaliate. Jesus who said to turn the other cheek is now according to religion a person who will not turn the other cheek. The Jesus who said to forgive 70 times 70 is now according to religion one who cannot forgive the habitual sinner. Which Jesus will you choose to believe in?

Grace teaches us to deny all manners of ungodliness. However, religious people reads that verse in Titus as doing your utmost to abstain from sins that clearly has a focus upon the law or church laws. If grace means saying no to sin by doing our best to keep the law then why did Paul say to the Galatians that they had "fallen from grace" for observing a little law but spoke of grace abounding with the carnal Corinthians? One would think that the Corinthians were saying "yes" and that the Galatians were not saying "no" to all manners of ungodliness. This explains why I hear from religious groups that when we sin was when you failed to walk under grace at that moment and that is insane. 

A mindset upon sin is an ungodly mind. Religious people do not even realize that they are ungodly even though they define godliness as living a life free from habitual sin. If being godly is doing your best to avoid sin then the Pharisees and even Jehovah Witnesses are the godliest people alive. 

A godly mindset is one who lives free from it. It is the one who has his/her conscience purged with pure water. It is a mindset that is neither, "What sins can I do today because I am under grace?" or "What sins am I to avoid today to be blessed?"  An ungodly mindset sees everything as impure.

The Mirror Bible had a footnote under Titus 2:12 that ends with:

the revelation of righteousness shows how completely God redeemed mankind in Christ and empowers us to cultivate an innocence consciousness instead of a sin consciousness.

I received so many emails from those who are struggling with some sin questioning their salvation. How is that walking in love? How is that walking free? They are in bondage. If they believe their lifestyle pictures rebellion then what is it in rebellion to? Grace or Law? They believe they are demonstrating rebellion against grace because they tell me, "If I truly believed then I would not be LIVING like this." They are still obsessed with the LIVING (performance). They still believe God is judging them. They believe God is still imputing sin. They believe God is still a little angry. They believe they cannot be saved until they are sinning less. They do not see that they in bondage to what religion promotes. You can only be in rebellion to something that you are living under. To be in rebellion to grace is to live under Law. I have died to the Law so where's the rebellion?  Those who say, "I have sinned again!" are those who are in rebellion to the Law and are not walking the grace walk. 

Remember, sinning can refer to erring concerning a truth and not some particular behavior. To believe God is angry with you, disgusted by you, withholding love from you, and is going to punish you is sin (erring from truth; believing a lie). We simply have viewed sinning as failing to keep the law. Get your mind out of the sinful gutter of a law/sin oriented mindset. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind and not according to the worlds religious system. Your true identity will not be found in how well you behave but it is only found in Jesus Christ, as He is, so are we in this world. Behold your glorious image by looking at Him (2nd Cor. 3:18) and no longer see yourself in the toilet through religious/law oriented eyes.


I only see Jesus coming to bare the sins of the world.  I only see Jesus being made sin for us.  I only see that by His death the WORLD was reconciled to God (2nd Cor. 5:19).  I see that Jesus gave Himself for a ransom all (1st Timothy 2:6) and not for those who sin occasionally.  I see that His death was a propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1st John 2:2).  I see that His death has taken away the sin of the world (John 1:29).  There is no fear of being a habitual or occasional sinner. The fear has been removed in Christ. To say, "I must clean up my act" is to experience rebellion to whatever laws you believe point to those "acts" in your life that must be cleaned up. Walking in love/grace will certainly lead you away from particular "acts" that are sinful. How? Often sinful acts do not flow from love and I am not talking about a glass of wine or listening to music that has a beat. 

I do not need a law that says, "Do not commit adultery" because law might entice me to commit adultery. Love tells me to not commit adultery. Love tells me not to retaliate but murder often flows from a heart that knows not love. Love tells me to forgive. Love tells me to love my neighbor. 

When love rules the heart is when you will find yourself not doing the things you formerly were doing. However, living by law will entice a list of sins you never struggled with before. Ever noticed all the things you struggle with after believing what your religion told you? You did not become love conscious but sin/performance conscious. Being love conscious is very different than being sin conscious. The sad thing is that after sharing this is to have people turn what I said into a law. They now will say, "If I truly had love then I would not have done such things." Their vicious cycle only repeats. 

I will say this, if we discover the good works that Paul tells us to do and the sinful works to avoid then are hearts would easily rest. Avoid fornication. Avoid adultery. Do not lie. Do not steal. Do not murder. Give to those in need. Do not let the sun go down and remain angry. Love one another. Love beholds no evil in others as love is not a fault finder. Forgive one another. Think whatsoever things are true, lovely, and a good report. Cast out the bondwoman and her son. 

The above was not exhaustive but did you find the above complicated? It only gets complicated when religion spews its poison and adds things. This is even why the very definition of faith in religion is confusing because they add so many things to it. You are always left wondering if you are doing enough. How do you know you crossed from habitual sins to occasional sins before a holy and perfect God? Religion will have you see everything as a sin to avoid. You will be questioning your motives and your very performance itself. You will be trying to impose more things upon yourself to do or not do.

I fail to see a verse say that He came to save us from habitually sinning so that we can now have occasional mishaps.  I do not see a Jesus who came into this world so we can sin less.  I see a Jesus who came into the world so we no longer have to have a “conscience (or guilt) of sins” (Hebrews 10:2) where we can enjoy an abundant life.  I see a God who remembers our sins no more (habitual or occasional).  I see a God who does not impute sin to the world (habitual or occasional).  I see a God of pure love that begets love. Love compels but law entices. As long as your "god" has a frown on his brow toward you where he demands A's will never issue love. This is why so many religious people try faking love, "I am only condemning you to the lowest hell because I love you and do not want to see you go there" sort of nonsense (see my blogs on homosexuality to see the love religion demonstrates). I was taught to say that nonsense too to people I addressed as alienated and under an eternal death sentence by my religious "god" when in the IFB.

Just read 1st Corinthians 13 and ask yourself, "If the love discussed in the chapter described me then would I be criticizing, mocking, or condemning others? Would I be retaliating against people? Would I be hateful, unkind, and critical of others? Would I be stealing, murdering, or committing adultery? Would I be lying, slandering, or speaking evil of my neighbor? Would I be withholding forgiveness?" You will discover that living under the law does not prevent such things but love does compel. Also, is what you read describe religion? Do you see 1st Corinthians 13 in most churches? You might see it demonstrated to those who obey the rules of the church but what of those on the outside of your church? How about Christians who became atheists? How about Roman Catholics? How about homosexuals? 

1st Corinthians 13 and its definition of love would not be, "You cannot drink a glass of wine. You females cannot wear pants. You cannot play cards. You cannot watch movies. You cannot mix swim. You must use the KJV because we believe the 1611 was the only (pride) inspired version and all other version have its roots in the devil." When love does not rule the heart is when you will see their critical spirit attack you when you do not agree or promote something they are against. Love is not telling you such things but religion. Such things do not harm others. KJV onlyists often spew hate comments and will resort to slander and lies to advance their cause showing love does not rule their hearts. If love ruled their hearts then there would be no need to take many sources out-of-context as one well known KJV lady onlyist did. There would be no need to lie about what actually happened on the John Ankerberg Show where they claimed the NASV translator lost his voice that was a proven lie and the lie came from one of the KJV debators on that very program. 

The few things I listed in the above paragraph are not offensive to people but only condemning religious people. Love rules the heart will be conscientious of others. Love will not say no to a glass of wine but common sense will say, "Do not get drunk." Love might say no to wine if a person in their presence might stumble by seeing you drink wine. BTW, those of the religious crowd will say that I am only condoning alcohol to excuse my drinking is to know that I DO NOT drink alcohol on a regular occasion. It is very rare that I have champagne (wedding toast) or a beer that I usually never finish. The last time I drank almost half a beer was back in July of 2014 (my mom's memorial dinner). I often have half a beer but rarely finish an entire 12oz glass once every 2+ years. My drinking hardly a glass of beer/wine almost always is tied to some special occasion. However, I see NOTHING wrong with a responsible person have a glass of wine/beer or two with a meal. I make no note of those who have 3 or 4 either as only religious people stare with the eye of condemnation because they know only judgment and not love. 

It is interesting to know that the last time I was drunk was when I was involved with performance oriented religion. The last time I was drunk was in 1998. I was struggling terribly with religion at the time (I was a 5-point Calvinist and a militant Lordship Salvation advocate) and sometimes would drown out my mental anguish. I have met plenty of other Lordship Advocates who would briefly throw in the religious towel to drown out their pain caused by their religious god. My grace beliefs have not once said, "Life is hard. I just sinned again. Oh God, I strive so hard to live a life pleasing to you but I feel like a failure" that led me to want to give up and have drinks to silence the pain. I no longer live a life trying to bring glory to God but now live knowing that God is already glorified in me! The life I live springs out of that reality as Christ is glorified in me (John 17:10; Romans 8:30) and my life brings glory to God. We are the praise of His glory (Eph. 1:6,12). I do not study to see what I can do to be a workman not ashamed but I study to behold that God is well pleased with me that is why I am a workman never to be ashamed. I like how the New Life Version quoted 2 Timothy 2:15:

Do your best to know that God is pleased with you. Be as a workman who has nothing to be ashamed of. Teach the words of truth in the right way. 

Be honest, if Jesus came to save us from habitual sinning then did you truly stop habitually sinning?  Do you tend to find yourself questioning your salvation or whether you truly believed because of sin in your life? How successful then was your Jesus??? 

There are certain sins that believers have that still plague them.  Religion says (not the bible) that if one is actively fighting against their sins proves they are not living in it.  OK, Jehovah Witnesses must not be living in sin because they fight against sins and so do many other cults. Does a man who gets continually drunk but hates his drinking and tries to stop drinking proving he is not a present tense drunkard?  No, so it makes no sense to say that a person who keeps repeating a sin but hates it proves that he/she is not practicing it. Do you see how ridiculous their argument really is?  

When a religious person tells you, “Jesus came to save us FROM our sins and not IN our sins” is when you say, “We were saved when we were dead IN trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1). Jesus came FOR our sins (1stCorinthians 15:3) giving Himself a ransom FOR all (1stTimothy 2:6) that includes the habitual and the non-so-called habitual sinner.  It was FOR our sins that He came to redeem us (1st Timothy 2:6) and was the propitiation FOR the sins of the WHOLE WORLD (1st John 2:2).  Jesus has TAKEN AWAY the sin OF the world (John 1:29). Jesus came into the world to save us FROM our sins but I live free from it and you live still obsessed with it. I believe in a Jesus who has perfected us forever and made us holy once for all (Hebrews 10:10,14) but your Jesus comes across as very frail and weak to accomplish anything. You can keep your Jesus but I prefer mine as He is far superior in every way." 

I think it is clear that "from our sins...for our sins" never was talking about habitual or occasional sins. This is when religion will read words back into the verse and will tell you, "He came to save us from the power and penalty of sin" but if saving us from the "power" of sin implies sinning less then did we really need Jesus at all? Pharisees and many cults of today do a far better job refraining from sinful practices than do many Lordship Salvationists today. This religious Jesus appears not to have supplied any power at all because cults do better than most Lordship religious folks do in abstaining from sin. 

Let me say that I do view the IFB and Lordship Salvation as a cult. They deny this but if you look online at the definition of a cult then they fit it to the tee.

The religious person is expecting a Jesus to come into the world to save us from habitual sinning, so I guess we all can still wait for such a Jesus to come.  However, we believe that a very powerful Jesus has taken away the sin of the world and not their wimpy false Jesus who only came to make us sin less?  We focus on what Jesus accomplished but religious people focus on what they accomplish ("I thank thee God that I am not like that publican over there...Lord, Lord, have I not done MANY wonderful works...these things I have done from my youth up" as such comments spewed from the lips of those who are not sinning habitually but occasionally as defined by religion).  Those who are obsessed with law/performance are those who are workers of iniquity and do not even realize it.

He certainly did save us from our sins but it does not say that He saved us from practicing our sins as much. You need to use a newer version that plays games with the Greek present tense to make you believe one cannot "continue in sin" even though the NASV has believers rebuked for continuing in sin (1st Timothy 5:20). Compare the NIV on 1st John 3:9 to the NASB on 1st Timothy 5:20 as we now have a contradiction. 

Again, if Jesus came to save us from practicing sin then He did a poor job because there are cults who do a better job at refraining from sin than these Lordship Salvation and other religious people can do.  

Now how are you defining Matthew 1:21?  Show me now from the context where it means, “not practicing sins” and not how you like to read words nowhere stated in that verse. Show me a verse that says, Jesus came to redeem or buy us back from practicing sins??  I think you should think twice before quoting Matthew 1:21 as a supposed proof text against what Grace accomplished and applied.  If grace to you is simply sinning less then why question the salvation of cults that clearly sin less than you?  

Keep in mind that Paul warned against those who would have you keep the Law.  Paul said this concerning such religious people in Galatians 6:13:

13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Does "keep the law" refer to the supposed occasional mishaps, habitual mishaps, or both?  Is that what Paul was saying?   Can you prove that your religion "keeps" the law better than the legalistic cult who does not believe the version of the gospel you do? Remember, you claim that Jesus gave you the power over sin that cults do not have so prove it? You condemn the Church of Christ and their works gospel so then prove that your Jesus gave you power over sin that they do not appear to possess? Just one example?? Anything?

If what religion claims is true where God puts within the believer a desire to “keep the law” then what do we do with the above verse in Galatians 6? Paul made it clear with "neither they" that clearly implied that not only the Galatians failed but the Judaizers as well. To be guilty of one point (occasional mishap) is guilty of all.  If neither us or they keep the Law then why would God put an impossible desire within us to keep the law?  How are we who are dead to the law, no longer under the law, and free from the Law supposedly given a desire to keep the Law something we dead and no longer under? Why put a desire that even religious leaders could not keep?  It is because God does not put the Mosaic Law in our hearts. I do not have keeping Saturday holy in my heart. This explains why so many religious people are questioning their own salvation because all they see in themselves is repeat sins that they do not like to admit openly. 

Be honest, you might claim that God has put in you the desire to keep the law but have you "kept the law"? Remember, the verse says that God will CAUSE you to walk in them, so prove how you are keeping the Law? Prove that you are doing what nobody else can do? Are you claiming that God has made the law something that you can now occasionally mess up on and be guilty in one point? Are you claiming that such is proof that you are saved because you somehow think you are sinning less? How are you sinning less? You stopped drinking, smoking, and using profanity? You go to church, pray, and read your bible? Can you share anything that separates you from the rest because I see those outside of your religious beliefs doing such things? What desires do you have that Jehovah Witnesses claim not to have concerning obeying the Law? Which of the 11 so-called apostolic tests (Lordship Salvation so-called Tests for Life) would a Jehovah Witness not pass? Just remember, "Neither they...keep the law" habitually and that implies you habitual sinner blinded by your religious self-righteousness. 

You are NOT under the Law and God is not putting the Mosaic Law desires within your heart to supposedly habitually keep that contradicts the verse in Galatians 6 (It helps to understand Hebrews 8 and its Jewish audience). This law would be without a sin consciousness that is impossible under the Law of Moses. This is why we are justified from ALL things that the Law of Moses could NOT do. It was relational in Hebrews 8 and not based on the old covenant of, "Do and I will bless...Do and ye shall live...Do and have an inheritance." Tell a religious person that we are not under the law is when many will attack it. Religious person, you have yet to keep the law but you desire to put the rest of us in the same bondage you are in. No thank you! I like being happy and joyful in the Lord and not miserable, frustrated, and wondering if I am saved one moment and not the next because I cannot keep my mind off of my sins.

You have been saved from your sins and you can enjoy life without worrying or thinking about, "Is this a sin? Is that a sin? What would Jesus do?" A renewed mind is not a seared conscience that is perpetually thinking about sin that is a huge problem among religious people. To religious people, all things are impure. They live by guilt and fear that they call love for God. They live plagued with doubts. They live as judges of other people's behavior that aligns them perfectly with the Pharisees. This explains why so many people doubt Jesus saved them "from their sins" because they are too busy focusing on their sins. They live plagued with a sense of condemnation and all they do to remedy their situation is to listen to Christian music, read articles on assurance, buy the latest book, join ministries, read the bible, and pray to arouse "feelings" of assurance. It was the horrible life I once lived as a former fundamental Baptist who held to Lordship Salvation beliefs. It did not get all that much better when I embrace free grace either. Pure grace opened my eyes to behold an unconditionally loving God and a savior of the world. I live in the reality of sins ALWAYS forgiven. I live in the reality of love always abounding. I live in the reality that I am well pleasing in His sight always.

I see a Jesus who came to save us from sin entirely and not habitually or occasionally. I see a Jesus who truly has freed us from a sin conscience that you will not find at most local churches. 

I see love as a mark of a person who is beholding the love of God. The love of God shed abroad in our hearts. Jesus told the disciples that others would know they are His disciples because they are not habitually sinning? Because they can now say, "Lord, Lord, have we not done many wonderful works in your name?"? Because they read their bibles daily? Because they choose only the KJV? No, because of the love they have for another. Love is often seen in good works toward others and not, "I stopped smoking, swearing, having a glass of wine with my meal, listening to music with a beat, and I make sure I spend two hours reading my bible per day." A new command Jesus gave, "That ye love one another." Love is the fulfilling of the law and not what your local church says you better be doing more of or else! Love, joy, and peace springs forth from Spirit and not the letter of the Law. Boredom, frustration, agitation, fear, doubts, critical spirit, and closed mindedness springs forth from religion. 

How do I get this love? Throw out the religion and the clouds blocking the rays of God's pure love already bestowed upon you should begin to get noticeable. It is already embracing you but due to ignorance (thanks to religion) of an already reality is making you believe God is alienated from you and somehow angry. It is you beholding your sins and fearing God that is blinding you. The veil of the law covers your eyes. You must stop believing the lie of religion. You are loved but you condition that love upon performance. You are loved but you believe that you cannot be saved because you see habitual sin. You are striving to enter a room that you are already in. God has been reconciled to you at Calvary. God has already removed the alienation. You either believe that or you do not. You either believe the truth concerning you or the lie that religion claims you are (worthless, hellbound, and unforgiven) until you first meet certain conditions they lay out. I said this before, "If what you believe/hear makes you feel like crap then it is most likely crap you are believing/hearing." If truth does not liberate then it was never truth. Not liberate from habitual sins to occasional sins. Cast out the bondwoman and her son and live free. Cast out the religion and be free!

Do you believe in OSAS? Can one be lost again? What must one do to be saved? How to receive Christ? What truth freed me?

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This blog is written to those who are familiar with my beliefs.  If you are not familiar with my beliefs then some of the things may seem confusing at times because I am not going into great detail here.  I am going to share some of the questions from memory that I have been asked before. 

Do you believe in OSAS/Eternal Security?
 
No I do not!  I believe the entire OSAS versus losing salvation to be a pointless debate.  What Jesus accomplished for mankind can never be lost but you do not have to "do" something first to make yourself OSAS.  Jesus has taken away the sin of the world and unbelief cannot undo that.  God reconciled to the world cannot be undone.  God is not imputing sin to the world as that is a biblical fact (2ndCor. 5:19).  To claim that you will die to suffer for sin implies that God is imputing your sins as He is keeping an account of it and will be sharing it with you upon death.  

No, I am not talking about Universalism.  I believe one can hide from light and cannot find evidence that death from the body will automatically plunged a person into accepting the light/truth.  Condemnation is hiding from light or a refusal to come to the light and I find no proof that God will force truth upon an individual.  The truth remains a reality but a person is allowed to remain lost as to this true reality but it is done by their own choice as we have people unwilling to let go of the lies they choose to believe.  This does result in God freaking out and burning the individual endlessly because he/she failed to make some profession of faith nonsense.  What happens to a person after death who did not want anything to do with a loving God is something I cannot answer.  All I know is that God's love fails not and neither does His mercy to such an individual.  God does not abandon nor put such people into some torture cell full of fire. God does not reject people but people choose to believe the lie that they are rejected themselves.  John 3 states that condemnation is hiding from the light.  The light never will refuse them but they refuse the light instead.  I do believe that one day every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.  

Nobody can forfeit what God accomplished for humanity.  The first Adam plunged all of us into death apart from our believing and the last Adam plunged us into life that our unbelief cannot undo.  Everyone gets so upset if freewill is violated then why are they not upset that their freewill had no choice in the Garden?  They are OK with all of humanity plunged into death apart from choice but ticked off with being plunged into life apart from choice?  That is as insane as someone OK with losing all of their possessions apart from choice but angered that someone made them wealthy apart from choice.  It is as insane as being OK with receiving a deadly cancer apart from choice but ticked off with being cured apart from choice.   

Much of the verses on "shall be saved" referred to a physical salvation.  Many were warned of a coming destruction that would fall upon the land.  If you look up “Shall be saved” in the Strong’s Concordance then you will discover that it was used also in the OT to refer to physical salvation and not an after death one. Physical salvation could clearly be lost.  If I warned people beforehand that 9/11 would happen then those who once believed my message would not be spared if they returned to work on 9/11. Hebrews 10 shares about those who return back to perdition versus those who believe to the saving of the soul.  Saving of the soul is the preservation of life and not an after death one. It addressed Jewish believers who under great persecution were returning to the temple soon to be destroyed.  These were the ones who were trampling underfoot the Son of God because in order to go back to the old sacrificial system would mean they would have to stomp over Jesus Christ who was the end of the sacrifices as stated in Hebrews 10 to get there.

You do not gain or lose what Christ accomplished.  Nothing shall separate us from the love of God.  Whom did God so love?  We like to read that verse as only implying those who did some religious act called believing and now God’s love will never let them go.  The love of God is what religious people hate hearing others outside their religion claiming.  It is not, "God so loved the world, but believers are only those that cannot be separated from the love of God" as that is religion.  It is God so loved the world and that nothing can separate them from His love.  He loved us when we were yet enemies, sinners, ungodly, and without strength.  If He did not abandoned humanity when we were at our worst before Calvary then what in the world would make you think He would abandon us now?  We need to stop making the first Adam the conqueror of the last Adam (Jesus).  The first Adam is not more powerful than the last Adam that religion clearly believes.  The last Adam's work is now reduced to some book in ink that we need to convince everyone of before they die and go to some hellfire forever nonsense. 

I listen to OSAS say that one can DO NOTHING to get saved and then will say that believing is the only thing one can DO to be saved contradicting themselves.  I listen to them say that our good works do not get us saved and that our bad works cannot get us unsaved once we believe.  OK, if we follow their reasoning then why is it that believing gets us saved according to them but unbelief cannot get us unsaved?  Who now is the savior here?  Good works cannot get you into heaven (no verse says that) but believing can?  Believing is now some meritorious act you do but people pretend to believe it is not.  I remember a pastor saying, "Believing is the only thing we can do that is not doing anything at all to get saved"????  Do you have to DO believing?  If so, you cannot say you are not doing anything at all because your believing got you into heaven according to your beliefs.  

OSAS will accuse their opponents who believe salvation can be lost as preaching a works gospel but I find many in OSAS guilty of the same thing.  OSAS preaches contradictory nonsense in my opinion.  This is why I see many fearful people worrying whether they believed enough, the right way, or the right message.  They worry that maybe a return to unbelief would result in loss of salvation because it only makes sense to ask, “If I did something (believing, not nothing) to be saved then would not something (unbelief) undo salvation?”  

Think about it for a moment...If I told you that good works saves then would doubt be normal?  Yes, because you are having to look at your own works to determine if you are saved or not.  What do you think would happen if a person lacked good works?  They would doubt their salvation.  Now why do you think OSAS believers doubt their salvation because of their act of believing?  Because they have made it a work as well.  The man who believes that his works saves will suffer doubts when works are absent and the man who believes his believing got him saved will suffer doubts when his believing wavers.  They will question whether they believed enough, the right way, or the right message.  The one tries to muster up good works to prove he/she is saved and the other is trying to muster up believing to prove he/she is saved. 
 
OSAS preaches the lie of separation just as conditional security teachers do and that is why I reject both positions.  It is you that has to cross the bridge of Jesus to be unseparated from God and that is pure nonsense.  Not sure if all in OSAS believe the separation lie but the majority do.  The separation lie is not a Christ who receives sinners to Himself.  It is not a Christ who has taken away the sin of the world.  It is not the God who was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself and not imputing their sins to them.  The typical gospel of religion is receiving Jesus and He will receive you back and that is garbage.  The garbage continues that if you do not receive Jesus then God will toss you out as garbage into some fiery pit forever.  To hell with religion! 

What must one do to be saved?

I have done a blog a while back on “Shall be saved” and shared how it was never about heaven/hell in the afterlife.  It almost always referred to being saved from enemies, physical death, and pestilence (it also can mean being made whole or complete).  Those who “endure to the end” in Matthew 24 was clearly about physical life because if God did not shorten those days (now past with the destruction of the temple) that NO FLESH would be saved.  It still does not stop religion from making it about some after death experience.
  
Today, the word saved is said by religion (not scripture) to be able to go to heaven when you die rather than hell.  No verse teaches that nonsense!  Saved has various meanings depending on the context but it never had to do with avoiding hell forever nonsense in some afterlife. 

This does not stop people asking still asking me, "Then what must one do to be saved?" as they still see it as an after death experience.  If you want to be saved today then be sure to exercise, avoid stress, and eat healthy as that should help you enjoy a longer and better quality of life.  I say that jokingly because many of the verses quoted on “saved” had to do with physical life that religion twisted into something else. 

Can a person who was lost be lost again? 

Absolutely!  Lost does not mean you are on a road to some hell in the afterlife nonsense.  Lost in my opinion means that you do not recognize your surroundings and I believe one can easily lose his/her bearings as I have done more than once.  The gospel acquaints a person to his/her true surroundings. To the one, all things are pure but to the other (the blind, the unbelieving), nothing is pure.  You will discover that religious people were in the context of Titus 1:15 who see nothing as pure (see my blog on Titus 1:15).  A mind that is perpetual sin conscious is one who has a seared conscience (see my blog on seared conscience).

The gospel reveals the real you versus the false lies we have pinned on ourselves that caused us to sow on fig leaves to cover what we believed was shameful in the eyes of God.  We preach truth to people and that is what they believe versus the lie of separation that religion teaches.

I often said in my blogs that people are trying to get into a room that they are already in.  As long as they believe a Christian will look and behave a certain way is for them to remain lost.  If they believe that a true believer will not do certain things is to remain lost in that mindset.  If they believe God is angry and holding sins against them is to remain lost in that mindset.  They fail to recognize their own surroundings.  They fail to see that they are home in the heart of God as they are lost.  They are lost because they are trying to find something they already possess in Christ.   

I see many professing believers still lost by how they treat and talk to others outside their faith (especially Catholics).  I see how they talk about those who live a lifestyle contrary to their beliefs (homosexuality) and will talk in a manner consistent with that of Pharisees and not Jesus Christ.  Somehow they define being a good soldier of Jesus Christ as by being obnoxious to those who do not believe what they do.  I see parents who kick their children out of the house because to not kick them out shows they are condoning their sins but that is NOT Christ but religion.

A prostitute washed the feet of Jesus with her hair and tears and Jesus was more than fine with that but today she would be called a "slut, tramp, sleaze, whore" and people would stay clear of such a person.  People would not go near her because they do not want people to think they approve of her behavior.  People would not go near her because they fear she might have HIV or some other disease, as she would be treated like the religious community did to lepers. 

What would you say to a family member who has Alzheimer’s and is asking you to take them home when they are already home?  They do not recognize their surroundings and you must do your best to assure them that they are home.  I deal with many believers who forget that they have been forgiven of their past sins as they constantly dwell upon what they had done or they focus on what they continue to do.  We have forgetful hearers.  They behold their true and beautiful image in the law of liberty but walk away and forget what manner of man/woman they were. Throw out the lie of separation!

Open your eyes as you are home!  Stop trying to enter a room that you are already in.  Become familiar with your true surroundings, (Holy, Justified, Forgiven, Adopted, Praise of His glory, Blessed with all spiritual blessings, Loved, Redeemed, Joint-heirs, etc). 

What does it mean to receive Christ if we do nothing to receive Him?

Receiving means to comprehend and not pray some prayer.  Receiving is believing and not walking some aisle.  You are not mustering up believing like many attempt to do because they were taught that they can go to heaven if they can but believe a few facts nonsense.  

I come to you with a message and you believing it is you receiving it.  The message is not what you need to do but what He had done and applied.  I take you from the worldly religious mirror and show you your true image found in Jesus Christ.  You are looking into the wrong mirror as you are RECEIVING the wrong image.

Again, receive means to comprehend or accept a truth or reality.  Do you RECEIVE compliments?  Are you mustering up believing to receive compliments?  No.  If your spouse or parent says, “I love you” is you either rejecting or receiving it but you clearly did nothing.  You either accepted it as truth or rejected it as a lie. If you rejected it as a lie does not mean your parent or spouse truly does not love you.  You do not receive the sacrifice as it was already offered on your behalf but you do receive the reality of it and immediately enjoy the benefits of it.  The benefits are already yours but many are too busy trying to do things to acquire the benefits.  They would be people who are not receiving because they are defining receiving as something they must first do. 
 
John 1:5 reads:

And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

The Greek word for “comprehended” is katalambanō

John 1:12 says that as many has “received Him” and the Greek word for received is lambanō. 
This is why I said that believing is comprehending and not believing the so-called 3 to 6 things that God supposedly wants you to know first before He can accept you as taught by religion.

Have you received Christ?  If so, then you believed the truth concerning the real you and no longer the horrible lie of religion that you are unworthy, garbage, and that God is alienated from you.  Have you received Christ or are you still trying to find Him in your behavioral changes?  Have you received Christ or are you seeking verification from your feelings first? Receiving Christ is rest to all of your attempts to receive what you already have in Him. 

If you are looking for emotional verification then you must believe the lie of separation.  You probably wonder when you pray if your prayer is making it beyond the ceiling because you see God up there and you down here (separation).  If God is angry at you every time you sin or is holding something from you because you sinned then you believe the lie of separation.

If you are looking at your works to determine if you are saved then you must believe the lie of separation.  If you are looking for a heart that desires church and bible reading to prove you are saved then you must believe in the lie of separation and have yet to receive Christ. This is not an eternal death sentence nonsense but simply you refusing to believe God is not separated from you.  You rather get some things straight before you will accept that God has accepted you and is not separated from you.

Receiving Christ is throwing out the lies that come from a darkened understanding.  Darkness hides from the light.  Darkness is those lies we believe over the truth.  The separation you believe you feel/experience comes only “through ignorance” as Paul said in Ephesians 4.  The enjoyment of “no separation” is enjoyed “through faith.”  If you believe that faith ends the separation then you still believe the lie of separation.  You are still trying to do something to end the miserable separation you feel.  You do not believe to end separation but you believe because there is no separation.

There is no separation as it was removed at Calvary (Col. 1:20-21).  You have been joined to Him.  You have been perfected forever.  You were set apart by God.  Nothing shall separate you from His love.  If you believe there is NOTHING you can do to be saved then why do you struggle with various things about your life making you doubt you are saved?  

Let me stop and ask you if the above paragraph aroused some joy within your heart?  Did you stop to think, "Wow!  This takes the struggle out of believing knowing that I already have such things"?  Do you see how such a reality births faith within you?  You are now experiencing what sinners experienced in the days of Christ where Jesus truly received sinners to Himself.  He FREELY forgave and not had to be pushed to forgive.  

He received you, so do you now accept that reality (not possibility) or will you continue to believe that you have to do something first before you will believe He receives you?  He already received you but will receive Him back?  God is already reconciled to you but will you now be reconciled to God?  How are you reconciled to God?  By realizing the truth that He is already reconciled to you!  It is that simple.  You do not muster up any believing.  Your believing does not make God reconciled to you.  The truth that God is reconciled to you births believing in you.  It might be a little believing at first.  It might be with doubts too.  However, it is through a relationship that believing grows as you learn more about this Person who so loved you and joined Himself to you.  It is where you become aware of who you truly are where you throw out the lies of who you thought you were. 

The gospel is, “You are a millionaire!”  The religious gospel is, “You have the potential of being a millionaire but here is what you have to do first.”  You are a millionaire breeds faith because it is based on an already reality but “You have the potential” breeds doubt and anxiety of whether you can meet or have met the conditions. 
  
The gospel tells the man ignorant of his riches, “Why are you sleeping in the streets?  Why are you eating from dumpsters?  You are rich!”  Not believing one is rich does not make him poor but he will continue to live his life as though he is actually poor if he rejects the reality that he truly is rich.  What would you say to Bill Gates if you saw him eating out of dumpsters and sleeping in cardboard boxes?  Would you say, "Bill, if you will believe then you will have money"?  No, but that is how the religious gospel is preached.

You said that you struggled with religion for years.  You said that you felt all alone in your struggles and that you felt hopeless of ever finding your way out of that mess.  What truth seemed to have helped you the most?

Jesus receives sinners!  Jesus was never worried about people who got drunk, committed adultery, or prostitution.  Only religion has issues with such things. 

I realized that if I walked the streets in the days of Christ that I would be able to lay my head upon His chest with all of my sins comfortably.  The only ones who would shake their head in disgust would be religious people.  Many fail to see that religion has changed the Christ of the Bible into an angry man who will shed blood one day.  They have turned Christ into a religious man.  Avoid religion!

I realized that I was accepted without having to change myself.  I realized that I was accepted without any condition of changing myself later. I died to sin and to the law.  No threats of the law applied to me.  I realized that even before I believed that I was under no threats of the Law but my religious mindset made me fearful of such lies reinforced by religion.  I could live my life without the religious stare at my hands and feet to see what they were doing at every moment. I no longer had to pray, "God, where are you?  Did I sin against you?"

Knowing I can be just like the prostitute who washed the feet of Jesus with her hair and tears with no fear of rejection.  Keep in mind that this prostitute was forgiven before but still called a present tense prostitute later after she was forgiven. 

Knowing there is no condemnation and no separation.  Knowing that I am so loved...Knowing that I am reconciled...Knowing that I am well pleasing in His sight always...Knowing that I can never be forsaken...Knowing that my sins are not imputed and God remembers them no more...Knowing that God is not up there and I down here but we are joined together are the very things that brings freedom from religion and instills joy into my heart.

Why would I return back to walking after the flesh (Law) that religion seeks to put me under when it robs one of life and peace in the Spirit?  Why would I sow to the religious fleshly life that breeds only corruption? 

Knowing you are received is probably the most important message to be preached.  Religion who preaches that people are trash until trusting Christ is horrific.  I have seen so many who suffer religious OCD, depression, and anxiety from religious teachings. I get annoyed with prayers that say, "Lord, we are unworthy of your love" or "Lord, we are but worms in your sight" as that is a lie.  I was so worthy of God's love that He went out of His way to prove it so.  I'm worthy because He made me so and you too!

Knowing you are received opens the eyes to begin seeing the height, depth, width, length, and breadth of the love of God in Christ.  You now will begin enjoying humanity as it was meant to be enjoyed.  Welcome to the abundant life! Welcome into the loving embrace of God that always had a grip on you and will never let go!

Grace teachers view of hell

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I'm paraphrasing a question asked of me before:

I’m assuming you believe the gospel of inclusion but I have heard certain inclusionists claim to believe in hell.  Why then do you not believe in hell because I see many of your views similar to theirs of what happens to those who reject God?  They believe the fire of hell pictures the love of God and will quote verses about fire equating to God’s love and that He is a consuming fire.  They compare God’s love to doing kind things to your enemy where it heaps coals of “fire” upon that individuals head.  So hell to them is not physical pain and agony in a burning hell but rather mental anguish from God’s fiery love.  As you and I embrace God's love does not mean others will.  Some will see God's love differently from how we perceive it and will seek to hide from it.  What do you think of what they are saying?  Do you agree?  It seems your view of condemnation closely mirrors their beliefs. 

I am familiar with certain grace teachers view of hell.  When I first heard them claiming to believe in hell is when I like to know which hell they are talking about because they rarely quote any verse that addresses hell.  They instead quote verses elsewhere about “fire” that has no hell in the context.  They simply read their views on fire and God’s love back into verses that talk about hell. 

Are they talking about Gehenna, Hades, Tartaroo, or even the lake of fire that is never called hell?  They just say that they believe in "hell" but which one?  I like to know because the verses that use the word "hell" are often never quoted. If they say that hell (Gehenna, hades, etc.) are all the same then how is hell cast into hell in Revelation 20:14?  If they are talking about Gehenna then why do they often never quote the verses that speak of Gehenna?  If they are talking about Gehenna then I would like for them to share how it is the fire of God’s love and kindness upon the individual?   

Am I to conclude that cutting off the member that offends is to prevent going to the fires of God’s love in Matthew 5:29?  Am I to conclude that the “whole body” perishing in hell is perishing in love and kindness in Matthew 5:30 that is mental anguish to the individual?   Where do you find that in the context?  Where is their view of love that they quote from outside verses seen in Mathew 10:28 that reads:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

The love and kindness of God will destroy soul and body that will bring heaps of coal upon that individuals head?  Do you hear these grace teachings explaining these verses to you claiming that Gehenna is teaching an eternal reality about God reaching out to sinners in love but the individual keeps rejecting His love for whatever reason?  No, many do not.  If they do quote the above verses is for them to have one “hell” of a time trying to make it fit with God’s love in the afterlife reaping coals of fire causing mental anguish nonsense. 

Look up every verse on Gehenna and ask yourself if they are explaining the verses from the context or explaining it away from another context without addressing a single verse on Gehenna. Try finding their views anywhere in the context of Gehenna.  You can't! 

Can you find a single verse that states that the people will be resurrected to go to Gehenna?  Can you find one verse that says that Gehenna is reserved for those who reject the death, burial, and resurrection gospel?   I can find verses on Gehenna that deals with a person’s works but never once that dealt with the person’s rejection of a death, burial, and resurrection gospel.You have to prove how the fires of Gehenna is the fire of God's love.  You have about 12 verses on Gehenna and see if you can prove it from the context. 

Read all the verses on Gehenna and notice that it is referring to a physical destruction and not an after death conscious destruction in some afterlife.  This physical destruction was described where the worms die not as that comes from the Old Testament that clearly was referring to worms eating (corpses and not spirits) until all is consumed (they do not die until all is consumed).  I do not see how “worms dieth not” as picturing the love of God heaping hot coals upon the persons head or God's love upon the individual. I will say that I have not heard these grace teachers saying that the 'worms dieth not' is picturing the love of God, but they do claim that the "eternal fire" is picturing a reality that we cannot ignore.  OK, then we must view what you believe in the "complete" picture given on Gehenna and not other verses read back into it.  

If you claim that Gehenna is merely a "conscious" punishment where one is whipped by the love of God then show us from each of the verses Jesus quoted on Gehenna.  Why do they fail to quote the verses on Gehenna?  We know Jesus never said or taught that about Gehenna but these certain grace teachers have no problem putting words into the mouth of Jesus.  People were never in danger of being whipped by love but physical destruction.  Gehenna was physical destruction in the OT (children sacrificed in fire) but now it is a loving whipping to bring you to your senses???  Read each verse on Gehenna and see that it is physical destruction.  It is death and not a spank on the spiritual rear end.  The only thing these certain grace teachers can do is read words from elsewhere and make you think that destruction of body and soul implies a gentle scourging to lead you to repentance.  CONTEXT!!  

See my blog on Gehenna:


How about hades?  Is the loving fire of hell hades?  Read the rich man in hell and see where this parable used against the Pharisees tradition teaching God’s love heaping coals of fire upon that individuals head. Sure, you might find some mental anguish that even hellfire literalists believe and teach but is it teaching the consuming fire of God upon the individual with possible hopes of relief? 

See my blog on Luke 16 and the rich man in hades:

Question: Luke 16:19-31 Parable or Literal?

How is Capernaum brought down to hades in Matthew 11:23 picturing the afterlife and God's love upon them? 

If grace teachers were talking about the hell called Hades then do you find all the verses addressed when they teach their views of hell (again, not sure which hell they are talking about)?  I know they claim that one can remain in hell as long as they reject love and mercy but how can it be hades when all of hades is emptied?  Hades is said to be cast into the lake of fire.  I doubt they are talking about this hell. 

Do you have a book or article written by a grace teacher that claims to believe in hell but sees it as the fire of God's love?  Read it again and jot down every verse they quote.  Now see how many verses that the KJV translates as hell had actually been quoted in their book/article.  Do you see any verses on Gehenna being examined from its actual context?  Check it out and you will see what I am getting at here.  

I do not mean to sound critical against these grace teachers because I do love what they have to say.  I would recommend them to anyone but not so much their teachings on hell.  I believe they give the after death hellfire literalists and the annihilationists the advantage because at least they are quoting the verses and looking at the surrounding context that some of these grace teachers fail to do.   

I know some grace teachers claim that God’s love and mercy is still extended beyond deaths door but they do not know if one will ever come out and go to heaven.  If God’s love and mercy is still extended beyond the grave then to say that of all the billions who have rejected the gospel in their short period of physical life here might never believe in the life to come seems a bit silly.  If I was to hold their view then I think it would be logical to say, “I believe many will come to see the love of God and will bow their knees to Him (every knee shall bow).”  

We can see that it took John Smith 25 years to come to believe the gospel but Sam Johnson 50 years to believe the gospel in this realm but to express doubts whether the billions who never believed will come to believe in the next realm seems a bit outrageous.  If these grace teachers who claim that the veil of God's love is pulled back in the afterlife where that individual is exposed to the full force of God's love then how can it be doubtful that some or many will come to believe?  We are in the physical realm that is full of religious veils and people still come to behold the gospel all the time but to claim doubt of whether one will believe in the next realm in 50,000 years is a bit odd to me. Am I to assume that we are doing a better job at evangelizing the lost here in the physical realm than God can do in His realm?  More individuals are reached with the gospel of love here on planet earth but God fails to accomplish it there?  This is why I shake my head when reading certain grace teachers and their views of hell.  

I get confused because some of them claim that hell is not a place God sends you to at death but rather the experience you will have when God’s love is revealed, but they always seem to describe hell as a place they are at and not some condition they are in.  If hell is not a place then do they believe such people will be reunited with their loved ones who were believers?  If hell is not a place then why would they not be able to be rejoined with those they loved dearly while alive?  I do not see one single person in the NT fearful of never seeing their loved ones again.  What you hear about hell in churches today is nowhere found in the NT.  Where do you see the death, burial, and resurrection gospel as a rescue from going to the fires of hell in the afterlife?  Where do you ever see one saying, “I need to preach the death, burial, and resurrection gospel to my family so that we can spend eternity together?”  Where do you find a single person weeping over sinners dying and going to some place of burning torment? 

In Revelation 21, we read about the saved going in and out of the city but that the unbelieving remains outside the gates of the city.  Why can't these grace teachers simply say that one remains outside the gates and will not enjoy the benefits of the believer?  Why not share how they will be on the outside looking in where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?  Why not share how condemnation is the hiding from the light as defined in John 3?  When you claim to believe in hell is when you cannot ignore all the verses that uses the word "hell." You cannot claim to believe the hell of Jesus and then cry, "It's a mystery" when you just spent so much time claiming that the fires speaks to God's love in all of the verses on Gehenna that you failed to quote just one Gehenna verse.  Quote the verses on Gehenna and prove your case.  If you are not talking about Gehenna or hades then say it.  Just say, "This is how I define hell from verses that do not say hell."  Say, "I do not believe Gehenna is experienced today by individuals and it is not an after death experience" because you sure are confusing when you claim to believe in the hell of Jesus.  These grace teachers will make it a point to mention the hell preached by Jesus (verses rarely quoted) that makes it clear to me that the hell they claim to believe is Gehenna.  This is why I would like their views to be explained in light of the context. 

No, I do not believe in hell.  I think grace teachers who claim to believe in an after death place called hell but soften it up with the verses they quote on love is making them look silly.  I also find it scaring people just coming out of religion.  Those with OCD hearing "I believe in hell" will not care if it is some softened up hell because the word itself freaks them out.  All they know is that it can be their fate and it scares them.  The word “hell” is a trigger word for many as it instantly conjures up fear and anxiety.  They are listening to a grace teacher they enjoy but then hearing that grace teacher claiming to believe in hell scares the hell out of them.  Why?  Because the grace teacher does not deal with all the verses on hell (almost none) claiming that they do not know if one will ever get out of that place. OCD believers are already suffering from mental anguish but now to think they might go to some place where the love of God unveiled will cause a far greater mental anguish paralyzes some.  They might read some of those verses that grace teacher failed to quote from its context and will wonder, "I do not see what he is saying in this verse."

I heard grace teachers that have said that they do not believe aion/aionios should be translated as an “age” in certain verses.  They will claim that “eternal life” would not mean eternal if the word means “age.”  I see a difference between life of the ages versus immortality but that is another topic. It is a shame that they see eternal life as quantitative and not qualitative (This is eternal life that they may know Him - John 17:3).  Eternal life refers to quality but immortality refers to quantity.  

They also claim that they do not know if one comes out of this hell but contradict themselves when they quote "eternal" as meaning without an end.  How can they not know when I heard them use Matthew 25:46 as against the aion/aionios view of "age" when it reads:

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

To claim to not know if those in hell (the above is not even hell in some afterlife) come out would be to change the meaning of the above verse.  Should the above be read as:

“And these shall go away into hell only as long as they remain in their unbelief: but the righteous into life eternal regardless of whether they remain in belief”?

Not sure how you read one as conditional but the other as unconditional inside of the same sentence. 

Look at what Jesus said just a few verses prior:

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels

Should I read the above, “Depart from me, ye cursed, into the everlasting fires of God’s love that will mentally torment you….”  Am I to assume that "everlasting fire" pictures the love of God burning toward the cursed in the afterlife?  Clearly Jesus was addressing the living in Matthew 25 and not some afterlife.  Everlasting fire can and most certainly does refer to an age.  Look at Jude 1:7:

Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Eternal fire of verse 7?  Sodom and Gomorrah are still suffering the vengeance of "eternal fire"?  The city is still on fire today?  Even Jesus used the exact same words "eternal fire" but clearly is not referring to something eternal but rather an age.  This is why I like the Young's LITERAL translation on the above verse:

as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before -- an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

If it pictures an everlasting destruction that never ends then why did God say that He would restore Sodom in Ezekiel 16:33-35?

Matthew 25 was not about some hell in the afterlife.  It was not even talking about those who reject the death, burial, and resurrection gospel.  The passage was dealing with nations and not those who have died and are standing some trial for their eternal lives. It was dealing with works as one would need to reread the context to see it clearly taught.

I am not bashing these grace teachers but simply am saying that I do not agree with them.  I will admit that my views are similar to these grace teachers but I do not call it hell.  Why?  You do not go to Gehenna at death.  Gehenna clearly caused death of the person.  Gehenna was never a place of conscious people in a supposed literal fire or in some place where they experience the full force of God’s love.  Hades clearly is emptied out and was not a picture of God’s love bringing them to repentance as hades was the realm of the DEAD. The whole body cast into hell was not picturing a spiritual death where the love of God will hopefully lead them to accept life.  You cannot find that taught in any verse on Gehenna. 

I refuse to read outside verses back into Gehenna verses.  When verses on Gehenna are not quoted is often because a person cannot offer a good explanation from the context.  You might think the verses are being answered but be sure to ask yourself, “Was the verses on hell actually being explained directly from the context and were the verses on Gehenna ever quoted?  Do I find outside verses being quoted that had no Gehenna in the context being read back into the verses on Gehenna? Often when you hear a bunch of outside verses is when you are not saying, "Oh, this makes sense now.  Destroying both soul and body...fear him...where the worm dieth not is actually God's unveiled love upon the sinner."  You often do not think of those verses because those verses are not being quoted.  You are obviously not being made to think about those verses from its context.

Let me say that there are some grace teachers who do claim to believe in hell but never will claim it to be the Gehenna as taught by Jesus.  They see this hell/heaven as beginning here on earth and continuing on, but there are grace teachers who will claim that the "eternal fire" and "Gehenna" is picturing an eternal reality (I agree with the former but not with the latter).  I simply do not call it hell.  

Below is from Andre Rabe who shares a hell but does an excellent job not confusing you.  He spells out the hell he believe versus hades and Gehenna that other grace teachers seem to teach as an after death experience:

Let me first say that although this writing focused on a hell and heaven that begins here and now, I believe it also continues in the hereafter. There are many pictures of hell that have not been informed by scripture, but rather by legends and human imagination. And so there are many assumptions that have no clear support in scripture. I believe Jesus meant exactly what He said … and His audience understood it in the context he spoke in.

The following is not a comprehensive teaching on hell, but just some guiding thoughts. Firstly ‘hell’ is an English translation that carries with it many pictures not present in the language Jesus spoke. The two words He used are Gehenna, which was a physical place outside Jerusalem. It had an infamous beginning during a time that the people fell away from God and burned their children as sacrifices to their idols. It is interesting to see what God thought of such a practise: “to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire [in honor of Molech, the fire god]–which I did not command, nor did it come into My mind or heart.” Jer 7:31

Later on this location became the rubbish heap outside Jerusalem, where there were continual fires to burn the rubbish and worms eating the leftovers. One of the worst judgements that a court could pass on a criminal, was that his body would not receive a proper burial, but simply be discarded in Gehenna. This was a judgement considered so serious that only the Sahedrin could impose it.
In this context Jesus said: “But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice (enmity of heart) against him shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the court; and whoever speaks contemptuously and insultingly to his brother shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, You cursed fool! [You empty-headed idiot!] shall be liable to and unable to escape the hell (Gehenna) of fire.” Mt 5:22 


To Jesus’ audience His words were very clear – He spoke about a real judgement that could be passed by the Sanhedrin …. not our concepts of an unending torture chamber.

Throughout the OT the Hebrew word Sheol was used, which is often also translated hell. However the OT does not have concept that Sheol is a place of eternal punishment. It was simply the place of the dead – righteous and unrighteous. Whenever the OT warned of judgement and Sheol, it spoke of imminent real destruction.

In the same way, many places where Jesus spoke about ‘weeping and grinding of teeth.’, he spoke about the literal destruction of Jerusalem that happened in 70AD. In Mat 24:34 he specifically says: “this generation will not pass away until all these things have taken place”

So in conclusion. I believe in a hell that begins here and and now and continues hereafter. However many of the concepts I’ve had of hell were not informed by the scriptures. Many of the places where Jesus spoke of ‘hell’ were relevant to the audience he spoke to and the literal destruction that was about to take place. I’ve heard people say before that Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone else. No He did not! Not our ‘concepts’ of hell. He spoke about Gehenna – a real physical place – and he spoke of Hades, the unseen realm.

To not know God, to not enter into what we have been designed for, is to destroy ourselves – there can be no greater hell than that. It is self-imposed … God’s arms are always open – He never changes.


http://alwaysloved.net/2011/04/13/so-what-is-heaven-and-hell/

I absolutely love Andre Rabe!  No confusion in what he said above.  You do not have to ask Andre, "Which hell do you believe in?" because he is crystal clear.  He sees Gehenna and Hades much like I do.  However, the others who claim to believe in the hell Jesus preached and then read the love of God verses back into Gehenna is confusing as "hell" (sorry, having some fun with the word).  I simply do not like to say "hell" because it triggers negative feelings from the religious upbringing within certain people.  I also do not want to quote a word that CANNOT be translated from Greek into English that way.  Gehenna is not hell in English.  Sheol/Hades is not hell in English.  To say, "I believe in hell" is ONLY tied to Gehenna/sheol/hades/tartaroo because those are the ONLY words erroneously translated as hell in certain bibles, so why would I use the word hell to talk about something other than Gehenna, sheol/hades/tartaroo?  I know what Andre Rabe means by his definition of hell but I personally would not choose to use that word.  Andre Rabe did an excellent job explaining his view of hell while explaining the other hell (Gehenna/Hades) so that there would be no confusion.  I read other grace teachers who wrote so vague that I left scratching my head.  However, great job Andre Rabe!    

Gehenna was a physical destruction that already happened to a specific people during a specific time.  To claim that Gehenna is teaching an after death conscious reality is silly to me because it never pictured that anywhere.  They claim that this fire of love of hell is where the believer embraces it but the unbeliever sees it as a threat and it torments him mentally.  That view in light of the verses on Gehenna or hell verses in general is as silly as claiming death by electric chair is wonderful to some but others see it as mental anguish as the volts pass through their body.  Gehenna was clearly a physical execution and not an after death experience. Nothing positive can be said of Gehenna.  The hell that these certain grace teachers present appear as a positive one but I fail to see the connection at all to the Gehenna they claim teaches an eternal reality of unbelievers.  I fail to see them quoting the verses on Gehenna. 

I said that my views were similar in their views on hell.  One might say that those who reject the love of God might experience a mental hell is OK in my opinion.  However, to say that one will go to “hell” is not OK.  When a grace teacher says, “I believe in hell” is when I will have to disagree because I know their definition of hell will not come from a single verse that uses the word hell.  They will dance around it with verses scattered all over the place to make their hell seem plausible. 

If you take out their words “hell” in what they claim to believe is to find much of my views in them (except for Gehenna).  I think that claiming to believe in hell causes problems for both them (verses on Gehenna, Hades, etc.) and for the person listening to them.  They tend to leave to many questions unanswered but will claim that it is due to you wanting absolutes and will not accept a mystery.  They will claim that it is because you either want heaven or hell and no in-between.  Nonsense!  What happens beyond deaths door is a mystery because it is not spelled out.  To fight over the exact specifics the moment we die is as silly as arguing whether your spiritual big toe comes of your dead body before your head does.  However, the verses on Hades and Gehenna are spelled out and reading so many outside verses back into it is when your teachings become the mystery.  I can say, “Judas went out and hanged himself, and Jesus said, “Go and do likewise, and what you do, do quickly and the peace of God shall rule your hearts and mind.”  Did I just create a mystery?  Yes, because when you examine the verse where Judas went out an killed himself is to know that all the other verses were not found in that specific context.  

I believe what certain grace teachers have done with hell is much like what some Calvinists have done with John 3:16.  Some will read that God loved a small portion of the world and will read Psalms 5:5 and 11:5 that says, "God hates" back into John 3:16.  It is only possible when you read verses scattered all over the place and ignore the context.  Reading John 3:16 leaves no room for limits or hatred.  Reading the verses on Gehenna does not present what some of the grace teachers are claiming either.  They too have to read verses scattered all over the place and will have to ignore the context.  

I am not saying to have nothing to do with such grace teachers.  Absolutely not!  I actually recommend that if you encounter such a teacher is to be blessed by their knowledge.  As they will tell you to rethink your hell (literal fire of pain) is to also rethink their hell too.  It is safe to believe their view of God's love upon an individual but to call it the hell Jesus taught is to rethink that one.  When I read their articles is often when I simply know that they are correct about the love pursuing the individual but clearly it is not the fire of Gehenna or hades.  I do not reread the words of "eternal fire" as the burning love of God.  This blog was not to spark some debate with them.  I do not want people to give them a hard time or challenge them.  Often they do not post many questions that challenge them.  They like to keep their comment section to simple discussions and not something they know will be long and dragged out.  I know I was like that before closing my comment sections.  I had a strike 3 policy.  If you could not prove your point after the 3rd response then a 4th response would obviously do not good.  Some just like to argue.  This blog was simply for you to consider what you believe.  

I did quote Matthew 25:46 that is a scary verse to many believers.  I did a blog that covered that verse but have copied and pasted it here below:

Matthew 25:46:
Religion loves to quote Matthew 25:31-46 as proof for their after death hell.  OK, where is the death, burial, and resurrection gospel in Matthew 25?  Where was the gospel at all in Matthew 25?  Can you find the gospel your church proclaims in gospel tracts stated in Matthew 25?  Where was the death, burial, and resurrection gospel proclaimed anywhere in the book of Matthew?  The passage was not a rejection of the gospel but dealt with how a people were treated.  The context comes just before religions isolated proof text that gives a big clue as to what was going on here:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

I fail to see the rejection of the gospel.  Religion ALWAYS has to read words/ideas into a passage that was NOWHERE taught or stated in order to blind the minds of the people.  The passage was dealing with the judgment of the LIVING NATIONS and not the judgment of the dead people of all who ever lived. 

Religion is quick to quote verse 33 as believers versus unbelievers:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Gentiles were NEVER called sheep once.  Religion seeks to twist the verse in John 10 about “other sheep” as somehow being Gentiles.  Gentiles were never called sheep once, as the “other sheep” spoke of the gathering together of the “two sticks” (two houses of Israel that were divided) as talked about in the OT.  Look at Ezekiel 37:

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israelhis companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.

23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and THEY all shall haveone shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Israel divided and was to be joined back together as one.  Isaiah 8:14 reads:

14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.

The two houses of Israel were the House of Judah and the House of Joseph.  Jesus saying “other sheep I have” was not a reference to bringing in the Gentiles as the Jews would not have understood Him to imply that at all.  Jesus came for the lost “sheep” of the HOUSE of Israel (Matthew 15:24) and the above verses were about the "house of Israel" (see Ezekiel 37:16 that says "house of Israel" again).  Gentiles were never called sheep (look it up). 

In Matthew 25, we have the “sheep” on the right and the “goats” on the left.  According to religion, the sheep are those who have believed the death, burial, and resurrection gospel but the “goats” on the left are those who have rejected the gospel of grace inside a book (Matthew) that did not preach the death, burial, resurrection gospel once.  Jesus did not start preaching His death until His final year in ministry that many fail to realize.  This is why the disciples did not understand what Jesus was talking about and even Peter rebuked Jesus for saying that He would die. 

The context defines who the sheep/goats are in verse 32:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

The nations (of the living) are gathered and not John Smith who died in 1867 for not believing the gospel.   

Some argue the word “nations” is often used to refer to Gentiles and that is true.  I think it is clear that we are dealing with all nations and not all Gentiles in the above verse.  The chapter leading up to this verse uses the Greek word “ethnos” to speak of nations, as chapter 24:7, 9 reads:

For nationshall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nationsfor my name's sake.

Matthew 25 deals with the judgment of these nations.  We are dealing with the land of the living and not dead people raised for the judgment of nations.  We are on planet earth here in Matthew 25 and not some after death experience. This is not a resurrection of the dead as religion reads way too much into this chapter. 

If you read Matthew 25 as literal then you will have some serious problems explaining the “cup of cold water, visiting prisons, sick, needing clothes” as literal as well. Does your religion teach that you go to hell for not visiting those in prison?  If you say that "visiting people in prison" is not literal then why should I believe verse 46 is literal banishment in some place called hell in some afterlife when it never says that?  Religion is notorious for such shoddy handling of the bible they claim to love.

The cup of cold water, visiting those in prison, and caring for the sick is a description of someone clearly in need.  We are addressing the judgment of nations and there was a nation in need of help that we will discuss shortly. 

What we have is a figurative gathering of nations and it is the nations on the left who experience the age-during punishment while those on the right experience the age-during life.  I know your KJV says, “everlasting” but if it is everlasting then where is this punishment or life being experienced?  This is why you have to make aionios (translated erroneously as everlasting) to mean that you die and then go on to this punishment/life when it never said that. One enters age-during life and the other age-during punishment but where do you see it as outside the realm of life?  Where do you see people floating off to heaven and others off to hell?  Where do you see it describing everyone who had ever lived?  The ones who go to aionios punishment are the nations in the context and not Fred Johnson who told pastor John Doe that he was not interested in the death, burial, and resurrection gospel tract.  The nations are those in the context.   

Where are those "nations" in the context today experiencing this punishment?  Only religion gives you that destination as they see it meaning some other place than earth (heaven/hell) even though we never departed from planet earth in Matthew 25 once. The passage never stated anywhere that the punishment or the life is in the afterlife in some other dimension at all.  Your religion added words to the verse nowhere stated.  The passage never states this punishment outside the realms of life or this planet.  It simply is the nations gathered will depart (go), as they are separated from the sheep.  To say, "One day they will die and go to hellfire forever" is reading words into the passage.

Where do you see an after death experience in Matthew 25?  Where is heaven in the afterlife even mentioned once?  You were taught the religious gospel of two choices (heaven or hell).  You were made to see words in Matthew 25 that simply are not there.  Nobody here is dying and going to some awful place.  Nobody here is said to be dying and going to some wonderful place either.   We are not talking about John Smith who rejected the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection one day dying and waking up spiritually in flames of agony forever nonsense.  We are simply talking about one having age-during life.  A quality of life. 

Age-during life is said to be knowing Him (John 17:3).  Age-during life is not immortality.  This “eternal (age-during) life” speaks to the quality and “immortality” speaks to the quantity. Romans 2:7 speaks of "eternal life" (age-during) and "immortality" inside of the same verse.  We do not put on "aionios life" but we do put immortality.  Eternal (age-during) is a gift that was to be enjoyed but immortality is the result of what Jesus accomplished at Calvary and His resurrection on the behalf of all.  In Adam all die but in Christ (the same) all shall be made alive.    

If you are going to be honest with Matthew 25:46 then you will have to admit that those who go into “everlasting (age-during) punishment” are those who did not give a cold cup of water and so on.  Religion simply tries to get around the obvious.  Some will tell you that if your faith is genuine then it will be seen in works as the supposed reason for verses 42-44 that again was not a passage dealing with believing the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection but rather the treatment of a nation (sheep) that we will soon see. 

Some do see the context of Matthew 25 as a lack of mercy being extended to others as a reason for God torturing them forever.  So are we to assume that God’s mercy is conditioned upon our mercy?  We are to assume that God's mercy will fail those who fail to demonstrate mercy?  God's mercy and love is only conditioned upon you demonstrating it to others?  God’s mercy and love fails?   

These people forever cannot be corrected of what they have done but now and forever have to experience a merciless “god” in a place absent of his love and mercy for their temporary display of mercilessness?  How does hell demonstrate love and mercy?  If God is love then how is a hell created by God without loving and merciful hands?  Good luck twisting that one with your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde god of religion!

We are talking in Matthew 25 about nations “back then” and their treatment of Israel.  Again, it is NATIONS we are talking about.  We are dealing with how one treated Israel back then.  The treatment of Israel can even be seen in Obadiah 1 and read these verses entirely:

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever (age).

11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
15 For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lordhath spoken it.

Obadiah is talking about those who did not stand with Israel.  How they rejoiced at Judah and her destruction.  How they spoke proudly of her distress as they have become as a stranger to her.  Mathew 24 speaks of a coming destruction that I believe happened in 70ad and then Matthew 25 speaks of Jesus as a stranger and those (nations) who refused to give Him a cold cup of water, visit Him when He was in prison, did not give Him clothes that were needed, and did nothing for Him when He was sick.  Again, this speaks of those nations that stood against Israel back then and they did nothing for her when she needed their help the most.   

This is what Matthew 25 was specifically addressing at the end of the chapter.  The goats were those who stood against them (Israel) and offered no help.  How is this even you today??? Religion does not care about those verses but rather verse 46 that they twist to scare hell into people.  Religion always quotes verse 46 to people and never the immediate context, why do you think?  Sorry, verse 46 does not fit with your rejecting gospel and frying for it as taught by religion.  It was dealing with the nations that stood against Israel as was in Obadiah. 

After reading those verses in Obadiah, would you read that passage as an after death experience or judgment of nations?  Are you going to read Matthew 25 as an after death experience or as the judgment of nations? 

46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'(Matthew 25:46 Young’s Literal Bible). 

Ask yourself, who are the “these” being addressed in verse 46?  Are the “these” referring to all of those who ever existed from the beginning of time?  No, we are speaking of nations during a specific time in the context.  Are nations going to hellfire and others are going to heaven?  I think that is a silly question.

Ask yourself, who are the “these” being addressed in verse 46?  Are they those who have rejected the death, burial, and resurrection gospel?  The answer is no, but many teach the verse as referring to those who rejected the gospel.  They see the verse as saying that the goats that rejected the gospel of grace go to hell and those sheep who have believed go to heaven.  This is man-made nonsense called religion.

You will find Matthew 25:46 in the statement of faith found at most online church websites as proof of hell for those who reject "their" version of the gospel.  It is found in almost every hell believing church website even though it was not preaching an after death hell.  The context does not argue what they claim and yet they use that verse as some supposed after death experience for rejecting "their" gospel. 

The age-during kolasis (punishment) would be seen in a form of chastening because “these” nations are punished for their treatment of Israel and never some rejection of the death, burial, and resurrection gospel.  You can hold on to your hellfire forever in the afterlife and continue to argue words nowhere stated in Matthew 25 but I prefer remaining true to the context rather than religion.

We are so accustomed to hearing about an angry God who throws most people into some forever burning torture pit as such people cannot see Matthew 25:46 any other way.   

The Greek word for “punishment” is Kolasis.  Strong’s defines that word as:

correction, punishment, penalty

Why is it so hard to picture the correction of nations in Matthew 25?  Why is it that we thrive on such horrific punishment that supposedly never can end?  Why is it so hard to see figurative language or even figurative punishment?  Does punishment always bring up physical pain in your mind?  Could not the nations be deprived of something as a punishment?  Does the religious "god" only deal in pain and disease in your thinking? 

Also, why is it that religious people get so upset when you attack their precious hell?  Why is it so hard for the religious mind to see Isaiah 26:9 as a possible reason for kolasis (correction/punishment):

With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth,the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

What does hellfire forever of burning agony accomplish?  How is that correction when nothing ever gets corrected?  It is nothing more than teaching a sick twisted “god” who needs therapy and medication.   Religion says that God “must” send people to this fire forever because He is just but no verse says that.  I think it is rather what the religious heart desires, and seeing how "angry" they get when you pour cold water on their hell is proof.  It is what religion calls justice and their god is nothing more than an invented golden calf. 

Stop climbing and shoveling

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Whatever spiritual pit you feel/believe yourself to be in is to stop trying to dig yourself out.  Stop the pursuit of “trying” to believe.  All the efforts to believe will only make you conscious of unbelief, as your efforts to believe will only be your shovel to make the pit you are in appear deeper.  The harder you try to believe the less you will believe.  Believing flows from truth and not efforts.

I do not care if you think you are close to coming out of your pit as you need to stop everything you are doing now!  Do not pick up another book hoping it will bring you out of your so-called spiritual dungeon.  You do not need to pray another prayer hoping that it will be the one prayer that will make God transform you into the person you think He wants you to be.   

You do not have to read another chapter of the bible to receive anything from God.  Many times people only read their bibles because they believe they have to do it or that God’s voice will grow dim.  

Stop your behavioral modification as that too is never a shovel that will get you out of the hole you are in but you will discover that it will make the hole deeper than you are already in.   

Stop the sin confessions as it will shovel or reinforce the lie of separation.  Individual sin confessions to God only cause temporary relief to some but it never permanently heals the wound.  It ignores the reality, “God remembers our sins no more…no more conscience of sins…He has taken them out of the way…Behold the Lamb of God who has taken away the sin of the world.” 

The religious cry of despair people make, “Oh wretched man that I am” as one views themselves inside an impossible ditch that they cannot escape.  They look for the shovel, “The good that I would do” but that  shovel only uncovers, “that I do not.” 

Anytime you grab a shovel to dig your way out of what you believe is wrong between you and God will only make you conscious of, “fallen short of the glory of God.”  Any time you grab a shovel to correct a wrong will only reveal something else that is wrong.  You will be jumping from one hole after another. 

The shovel of trying to feel or believe you are forgiven will have the opposite effect.  The shovel of punishing yourself with guilt for how you live/feel will only reinforce such things. 

The shovel may seem logical to use but all the attempts will only make you bound but never free.  The shovel is your flesh.  It will only uncover your flesh.  Your flesh wears a bright red cape with the big S on the chest but it is anything but super.  The more you dig the more flesh will be revealed.  You will only discover a tomb full of dead men bones.  Any attempts you make is a shovel.  The shovel is the flesh and whatever is sown to the flesh reaps corruption.  It always fails in the end.

The distance you feel will cause you to look for possible reasons why before you will go reaching for the shovel to get you out.  Colossians 1 reveals that we were alienated IN OUR MINDS by wicked works.  Man has always been looking for shovels.  They would impose stricter rules upon themselves/others as a supposed means to get themselves out or to remain safe and protected.  

The shovel seems logical.  If sin is causing you to believe God is angry and distant from you then trying to shovel and uproot it seems to imply that all will be well between you and God.  I cannot tell you how many times I have heard that from people who have emailed me with their struggles with pornography.  

The teaching that you are separated is a lie.  There is no bridge of Jesus that you must first cross to end the separation as that is what religion teaches.  Those prayers (so-called sinner’s prayer) are only a shovel.  Your bitter repentance of, “I vow not to do this/that again.  I vow to try harder.  Give me strength to never do that sin again” is only a shovel that can never cure anything.  How many vows have you made to God that you have broken already?  What will one more vow accomplish when every vow before failed?  

All efforts we make are simply our way of avoiding chaos from breaking free.  We think if we cease from our efforts that all hell will break loose in our lives.  Religion claims that the grace message will cause one to sin wildly and without restraint.  We fail to realize that the ceasing from our efforts to win or maintain God causes a healing within our own lives.  The black muck we have been hiding can now be exposed to the light and we can enjoy healing/freedom for the first time.  We can remove the fig leaves.  God is not ashamed of us and we no longer have to be ashamed in His presence either.  We can remove our phony religious masks.  

If you are in a hole then stop digging yourself out.  You might feel you are in a pit of sin that you are wallowing in and cannot seem to break free from.  Your efforts to break free are merely a shovel that never works.  What sins were you committing last year?  Are you still committing them this year?  I can assure you that you will be committing them next year too.  Throw out the shovel.

The gospel of grace is a reality and you cannot dig or climb your way into it.  You are in it as you need no shovel.  You do not get grace by believing (shovel/climbing) but you do enjoy grace by believing.  Look at the pit you are in and see yourself immersed in grace.  Grace is not a license to sin but rather grace envelops you in all manners of life/behavior.  You do not say, “I have grace so now I can sin” but rather, “Grace embraces me even while I sin.” Grace is how we can lose the sin consciousness. Grace is greater than our sin.  It is not, "Grace is greater when we sin less or stop sinning" but "Grace is greater than our SIN."

Law was to make sin abound.  Your shovels/climbing is why you see sin abounding in your life.  The law will always show you, “One thing thou lackest.”  Grace super abounds that which abounds (sin).  Grace is not something you dig with a shovel or climb.  Grace super exceeds all sins and does not imply that you will sin less than before.  No matter what sins you commit is to always know that grace keeps super exceeding all of your sins.  You might think that your sins super abound but grace flows beyond measure.  Grace cannot be measured.  If you can out sin grace then grace can be measured but that is something you cannot do.  Grace is how we no longer see pits in our lives.  Grace is the end of shovels/climbing.  Grace is Jesus Christ!

The reason why we feel sinful and separated is because we are feasting from the wrong tree.  The tree of knowledge of good and evil only breeds feelings of separation.  The other tree of life breeds reconciliation and acceptance.  We somehow think that we can enjoy the tree of life by observing some of the tree of knowledge.  Religion tries to balance the two trees together by saying, “We are not under the ceremonial law but the moral law” but fail to realize that the law Paul said that we are not under was the tablets of stone that definitely was the moral law.

Looking at the tree of good and evil is when we will try to do what is defined as good and stop the evil through our shovels and climbing.  We set up this target in our own minds that we must meet but will always fall short of hitting that mark of perfection (Romans 3:23). 

I like to ask those who doubt their salvation, “What would it take for you to believe you are saved?” and that is when the tree of knowledge of good and evil flows from their lips, “I want to see a pattern of good works.  I do not want to view pornography anymore.  I want to feel that I am believing.”  Whatever you believe is keeping God apart from you can only come from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The condemnation we feel only flows from the tree of knowledge.  The other tree of life is “no condemnation” as that tree is Christ.  Have two plants but make sure one is dead.  On the dead plant is to hang little notes, “Separated, alienated, rotten, sinful, corrupt, unrighteous, and a disgrace.”  You might hang the various sins on that tree.  Have another plant that is green and healthy and hang little notes, “Loved, reconciled, forgiven, dead to sin/law, perfected forever, holy, a child of God.” Now which tree would you like to live from?

The moment you view sins in your life is the moment you will feel yourself distant and alienated from God.  Your eyes will see a perfect God but yourself as imperfect and you will try to make up for the wrongs you see in yourself.  If we do not believe the reality that we have been “perfected forever” and made “holy once for all” as stated in Hebrews 10 then we will always be reaching for shovels to somehow bring about such perfection and holiness.  

If we do not believe we are “perfected forever…holy once for all” then we will continue to eat from the tree of knowledge and life will simply be miserable for us.  We will continue to hide from God but will think that God is the one hiding from us as our prayers will be, “God, where are you?” God does NOT hide His face from us but we hide ours from Him believing we are a shameful disgrace in His sight.  This is why many have no problems getting on their knees when they tried so hard to do right during the day but struggle to pray when they were a sinful mess. 

Most of the emails I receive from people struggling with assurance are the problem of separation.  Separation is a lie but religion teaches that you are separated here and then the next life that is a lie from the pits of hell.  Separation began in the Garden but in Colossians 1:20-21 reveals that the separation existed only in our “minds.”  God put an end to the separation (Greek Perfect Tense) as we have been reconciled.  How many were reconciled?  "All things" in the context, and in 2ndCorinthians 5:19 we read that God has been reconciled to the “world.” Reconciliation is the tree of life and never found in trying to do some of the things listed in the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The gospel preached today is, “Do this” to end the separation that is not the tree of life.  Whenever you feel you have to do something is where your shovel comes out and your struggles begin.  There is no separation or alienation.  There is no separation awaiting you in the next life.  Separation again is the product of the mind.  In Ephesians 4, Paul speaks of those who are alienated from the life of God from the ignorance IN THEM.  It is ignorance of the reality that no separation/condemnation exists.   

Condemnation comes from a mindset that is fixed upon sin/law.  If you feel condemned then it is because you are feeding from the wrong tree.  Shoveling/climbing is our religious response to condemnation.  Are you shoveling or climbing right now?  It should be obvious that you see something lacking in you right now and that is why you are trying to do something about your situation. 

One notices that they are not Christ-like (judging from the tree of knowledge).  They are easily angered and often say mean-spirited things.  They have no desire to pray or read their bibles.  They do not feel like going to church.  They are critical and judgmental.  They do not feel as though God is around them.  These are the fruits of condemnation and you cannot dig or climb your way out of it.  They are the fruits of a false religious non-reality. 

I used to feel the most frustrated when I was trying to bottle everything in (keep sin under control).  The harder I tried to control my feelings or behavior the more irritated I often felt.  It was easy to complain about others.  It was easy for me to find faults in others.   I was angry inside but would call that anger “righteous indignation” against the sins of others.  It was simply my way of venting my own frustrations.   I was doing everything I thought a Christian should be doing (shovels) but nothing seemed to be working.  The frustration finally became, “What will another prayer do?  What will another chapter of the bible do?  What will buying another book on assurance do?  What will another church service do?  What will another rededicationdo?  Nothing works.”  This is when one might “backslide” as religion calls it but it is not backsliding because it was never truth one was embracing, so you cannot backslide from it while the error continues.  One was simply quitting all the insane efforts for a period of time.  Often those who stop the insane efforts of religion will report feeling better and more at peace.  Yes, you stop the stress of religion but the lie of separation still lurks within the mind even though you have temporarily taken on the attitude, “I do not care.”  As far as you are concerned, God is not happy with you and He probably will send bad things your way to get your attention nonsense. 

The problem believers have is this, “If I am believing then I expect changes in my life to happen.”  The changes have already taken place but they are looking for sin not abounding.  The problem is that you are defining the changes to be according to the knowledge of good and evil.  The changes that have taken place are the spiritual reality that you HAVE been blessed with all spiritual blessings.  You are adopted.  You are loved.  You are never forsaken.  You are the praise of His glory.  You are forgiven.  You are joined with Him.  Nothing can separate you.  Nothing can condemn you (not even God).”  As Jesus is, so are you in this world, so to condemn you is to condemn the Son.  God is not going to make light of the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.  His grace always exceeds your sin.  Grace cannot be measured.  If you tell someone, “I did this against God fully knowing what I have done and fear that God will not forgive me” is when you are viewing yourself as distant from God because of what you had done.  The fact that they say that reveals that they believe that sin super exceeds grace. 

Jesus receives sinners.  It is a sinner you believe you are seeing in that pit but fail to see the accepting Savior.  Your shovels have been prayers, bible reading, church, fasting, rules, abstaining, and the list goes on.  Grace is for those who know that sin abounds in their life.  Grace is your ticket to relax and no longer fear or worry about the pit you think you are in. 

“What if I keep doing my particular sin?”  Do you see how your question is telling you to reach for a shovel?  You just need to know that Grace never judges the way you live.  Grace never leaves or forsakes you.  Grace is not saying, “Why did you do that?”  Grace does not tell you to climb or grab shovels.  Grace does not say, “Here are the minimum fruits you need to see to determine if you are under grace or not.”  Grace meets the individual where he or she is at and even if that person remains where he/she is at is for grace to remain comfortably with them always.  Grace does not give your shovels strength but shovels is how one falls from grace (not loss of salvation) into "What has happened to your joy?" (Gal. 4:15a).  Grace does not tell you to try harder.  Grace does not scold you.  Grace does not say, “It has been a year and you are still committing the same sins.”  Grace never says, “You blew it.”  Grace says to you, “You are perfected forever!  You are righteous!  You are loved!” and Grace says such things REGARDLESS of how you live. You want to dim the voice of grace?  Choose the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  Join religion and grace grows silent.

Dave, the above paragraph sounds like a license to sin?  No, it is a license to stop thinking about sin.  It is a license to stop living in fear and start living in perfect love that you are already in.  Your thinking about sin/law is what gives sin its strength.  Your shovels and climbing gives sin its strength.  

God is angry = reach for a shovel.  God is holding sin against you = climb your way out.  You cannot be saved = reach for a shovel.  God cannot accept you = climb your way out.  

I do have one question for you, how long do you intend to keep living like this where you are ever striving to find something you already have?  You are trying hard to enter a room that you are already in.  Your ignorance and focus upon sins/behavior is veiling the grace of God that embraces you.  Why are you so quick to dismiss this?  Are you afraid to admit, "I have been wrong?" I found admitting I had been wrong caused the greatest relief ever.  It was the beginning of my journey in pure grace.  

The next time you sin is where you can choose to dwell upon the tree of knowledge or the tree of life.  One produces guilt and shame that religion calls conviction of sin but the other tree is where one lives in the reality of no condemnation and no separation.  One lives paralyzed by sin while the other lives free from sin even while sinning.  Yes, free even while sinning!  Let’s face it, you and I live in some sin that we are not even aware of and are not even slightly bothered by it.  Let’s pretend that chewing gum was a sin.  How bothered were you about it all of those years you were chewing away in complete ignorance?  Would you really want to feast upon the tree of good and evil to make you conscious of chewing gum? Adam and Eve were not bothered by their nakedness until they ate from the tree. 

There are churches that do not see the same things as sin as do the other churches.  Listening to music with a beat might cause one to stumble in one church but enjoyment in another church.  Ladies wearing pants or shorts in one church is seen as a sin and people are bothered by it but not in another church where nobody is bothered by it. The tree of knowledge is a life of pure unadulterated toilet.  I do not wish to be part of its cesspool. 

The tree of life is a relationship. It is life and peace.  It is reconciliation.  It will affect how you view others.  You will not be looking to whack sinners with a branch from the tree of knowledge any longer.  Your message will no longer be a mixture of two trees.  It will no longer be that nonsense of, “I must preach the bad news before the good news.”  Love begets love and love will begin flowing from your heart to others.  You cannot define how much love you will have or what will begin to happen in your life.  Jesus said that those forgiven much will love much.  Obviously, one can love less than others, so do not judge how much love you will experience.  You can grow in love over time.

The first thing people noticed about me was that I seemed more relaxed and was not so uptight.  I did not see the change but others did.  However, even if I did not see change does not alter the fact that I had indeed been changed.  I, like you, have been made a new creation.  I have been washed, justified, and sanctified.  I was perfected forever.  I was made holy once for all.  The man/woman you see listening to rock music smoking a cigarette is perfected forever. Did you have problem with that last statement?  It is the roots of the tree of knowledge within you.  You want the shovel of no rock music and no smoking before you will accept "perfected forever." 

What if you believe you currently lack love?  I would say watch out for reaching for a shovel to fix your problem.  Your relationship to God has been restored in full at Calvary but you might need time to heal.  It is hard to let go of the tree of knowledge.  It is hard to undo what we conditioned ourselves to think/believe.  It will prove a terrible thorn in the side for a while.  As long as you believe your relationship depends on doing things is when your relationship remains hindered.  Paul told married people to not go to bed angry, so do not believe for one moment that God holds anger against you.  Believing God is angry with you will cause you to reach for the shovel. If Paul said to not let the sun go down upon your wrath with your spouse is to know that you do not lie down ever with God ticked off with you.  You are embraced by the arms of God's love 24/7. 

God is very much about a relationship.  As long as you are focused on God being the demanding spouse and that all you are is nothing more than a common slave then what relationship can you ever expect to enjoy?  Would you marry someone who said, “Only I will give orders here…Only I have the right to be angry…Only I have the right to punish you”?  That is not a relationship but it is the relationship religious people have with their angry “god.”  They demonstrate the “god” they believe in with their relationship to others.  Is your “god” unforgiving?  I bet you struggle to forgive others.  Is your “god” angry?  You probably are angry too.  Is your “god” critical and judgmental?  I bet you are too.  Is your “god” not letting you get away with your sins?  I bet you sure get angry with grace people who seem happy and assured but do not strive as hard as you do. 

I was told in religion that if I lacked love for the lost is to pass out gospel tracts (shovel).  So love would come through, “Sir, do you know you are going to hell when you die as you are a hell deserving sinner?  Do you know God is angry with you and you will suffer His intense wrath for your sins (the religious lies of separation)?  It does not have to be that way because all you need to do is…”?  I thought love would lead to sharing the truth with others but we have religion having you do the work in order to have the love.  Never works!  Religion gets it backwards.  You worrying about not having love is simply you paying attention to a ditch you are in and are considering ways to climb out that will only serve to frustrate you further.  How frustrating has this life been for you?  Guess why??

Faith is even a shovel to people.  People are doing everything to have faith when faith is simply called a fruit.  How do you do the fruit first?  Faith actually is the result of a relationship and not the condition to have one.  Ask a tree of knowledge minded person as to how one can have more faith or find faith?  They will give you a list of things (shovels) to do and a list of things to avoid.  It is, “Don’t expect faith while sinning.  Don’t expect faith if you are not actively participating in church.” 

The more you know Him the stronger the faith.  The more you know the religious Jesus the more faith dissipates. You lose confidence because your shovels do not seem to be working.  

I found a book my mom read years back and she had written in pen in the back of the book, “Jesus died for our sins…Believe this!   This is it!”  She thought that all she needed to do was believe those things and then Jesus would come into her heart and save her from her sins.  Believing actually is the fruit of hearing but religion has turned believing into a work you have to do to get something from God.  If I said to you, “I deposited the check into your bank account” is when your believing is the RESULT and not the condition of the check being deposited.  However, if I said, “I will deposit the check into your account if you will but believe me” is when believing is not the result but the condition/work that must be fulfilled before I deposit a single penny and that is the religious version of the gospel.  This is how religion turns believing into a shovel.  And there are many shovel tests they give to determine if you have met this condition of believing. 

Do you believe the “gospel of your salvation” or are you still trying to believe to gain the gospel of your salvation?  We believe after we hear the truth and never believe to make things true.  The message of alienation is the lie religion and it flows from looking at the tree of knowledge/religion and majority believes the lie of separation.  It is, "Look at how short I come to God's perfection.  Look at how sinful I am."  This creates a false awareness that God is angry and distant. 

The message of reconciliation is the truth we believe.  You are either a believer of the one tree or the other.  You cannot have the best of both worlds.  You are either going to believe you are unworthy, unholy, imperfect, separated, God is angry with you, sinful, and unloved based on the lie or the conclusion you got from beholding the tree of good and evil or that you are blessed, loved, forgiven, adopted, made perfect forever, holy once for all, and the praise of His glory based on an already fact.  You cannot mix the two messages.   Believing does not make blessed, forgiven, and loved a reality, and it does not make believing you are unworthy, unholy, and separated a reality either. Believing simply makes the tree of knowledge and all the lies of religion seem real to you.  Believing simply will make the tree of life real to you because it is real.  Unbelief in the tree of life cannot make any of it void concerning you.   

Dave, do you view the law as evil?  No, not at all.  In a way, I view the law as something written to Jesus.  It was not something I could ever keep.  I was never intended to live under it.  However, man needed to see that he could not keep it.  We discovered that there is no way of obtaining righteousness or inheritance by keeping the law.  The law only gave our sin its strength.  To fail in one point of the law is to be guilty of all, so why would I want to subject myself that could only bring death and not the abundant life.

We often wonder as to why God gave us the tree of knowledge of good and evil.  I believe we were created in the image and likeness of God.  The tree of knowledge of good and evil revealed how we could never be like God as we would realize that we were without strength and that it would be impossible.  Our identity given to us by God was never to be found in the performance.  

The lie stated in the Garden was to eat and that the eyes would be opened and they shall be as "gods" that know good and evil (Genesis 3:5).  I know religion conjures up this belief that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was given so that we would be able to exercise our freewill and choose life or death and that is pure nonsense because only one person made that decision for the entire human race.  We each did not have that decision to make personally there.  Our death was the direct result of the first Adam and not our decision but his alone.  Our life was the result of the last Adam and that too was His decision and not our own.   

In the Garden, our image became skewed as I have said this in several other blogs in the past.  Our old man has died but the new man is created after the image of Him in righteousness and true holiness.  We do not observe the law because that is what opens the eyes to see how short we come of God Himself and this leads to feelings of condemnation. Righteousness can NEVER come by the Law.  You can NEVER attain righteousness by sinning less or doing more works.  The reason you feel guilty, condemned, and separated from God is because your eyes are beholding Law.  You feel you come short of what He expects.  

The original intent of the Tree of Knowledge was for you to behold that you could NEVER be like God, and you were NEVER meant to eat from that tree.  When people email me for help with their doubts is to hear the serpent whispering in their ears the lies from the tree of knowledge.  They are convinced that the reason they doubt their salvation and why God seems distant from them is because of some repeat sin.  The correct look is, "I can never be like God" but they instead are trying to be like God by doing what they think He demands of them.  If you want to be like God then you can never make a single error.  Adam and Eve were naked and not ashamed until they ate of the tree of knowledge.  Whatever the "naked" implied reveals to me that it would have been considered a sin by religious people today.  

God was not going to allow mankind to remain in his darkened mind.  He was not going to allow mankind to remain forever lost as to his/her true identity.  God had to reveal His true self in Christ.  Christ is the tree of life and now our original innocence has been restored beyond anything Adam could enjoyed.  As Christ is, so are we in this world.  We are to behold our mirror image by looking at His glory (2nd Cor. 3:18).  

What is sin?  Join religion and keep trying to make those vows and behavioral modifications to feel better about yourself.  Try harder to sin less so that you can feel saved.  Do more of those religious duties that you are told that if you do not do them might prove you are not saved.  Welcome to the world of sin!  You are living in it if the efforts describe you.  Sin is our shooting to hit the bulls eye but your arrow always comes short of perfection.  It would be you trying to make your state mirror your standing as taught in religion that leads to misery and failure.  Make your thoughts mirror your true state but get your eyes off of your performance.  

God remembers your SINS no more.  God made it clear that He remembers NONE of them by distinguishing various types of sins.  Look at a few verses:

13 And you, being dead in your SINS and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all TRESPASSES;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way,nailing it to his cross (Col. 2:13-14)

17 And their SINS and INIQUITIES will I remember no more (Hebrews 10:17)

The "I remember no more" is a double negative in the Greek stressing the utter impossibility of that ever happening.  However, religion says that God will remember your sins if you do not believe the gospel nonsense.  This implies that God is actually imputing sin and had been lying to us all along but we know that is not true.  2nd Corinthians 5:19 reads:

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 

Young's Literal Translation of Hebrews 10:17 is:

17 and `their sins and their lawlessness I will remember no more

Do you commit sins?  How about lawlessness?  What will God remember no more?  Do you commit lawless DEEDS?  What will He remember no more?  If you are worried that your repeat sins are gaining His attention then where do you think in the Garden of Eden that such a worry would have originated?  What tree are you eating from? 

Grace teachers are accused of "antinomianism" about how we are against law.  No, I just know that the law shows how I can never be like God.  I know that I am not under it.  I was never meant to be under it.  I am not against the law but the law has its proper place.  It was never given as God's expectations of mankind of things we better obey.  To keep one point of the law requires we keep them all and if we offend in one point is to be guilty of all.  Those who accuse me of being an antinomian often reveals that they very well might be partakers of the tree of death.  Often they are the ones who say, "God will never allow you in His presence with your grip on sin."  We all have some grip on sin if we were to look at all 613 laws.  Even Paul said in Galatians 6 that those who would have you keep the law are those who have not kept it themselves, as no human has.  If God will not allow you in His presence due to a grip on sin then where do you think such a message comes from?  Tree of Life or the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil????  It was the knowledge of good and evil that caused mankind to believe they were separate from God.  Colossians 1 reveals that we were alienated "IN OUR MINDS BY WICKED WORKS."  What causes you to think you are separated or that God is angry with you?  I know it is not your wonderful works but your wicked works.  You are listening to the wrong tree.

The reason we often struggle with assurance is how we were taught the gospel.  When you are told that you must believe a certain number of things before God can save you cannot be the gospel.  When hearing the accomplished and applied gospel is when you can either say, “I rather choose to believe the tree of good and evil” or “I believe what I heard is the truth from the tree of life."  Choosing to believe the tree of knowledge is to hear a gospel of, “Do this...You are alienated...You are condemned.”  

The religious gospel makes it scary because if you do not believe the correct gospel (all think they have the right one) then you will die eternally screwed.  However, the gospel of grace allows you to have imperfect knowledge.  It is already a reality on your behalf before you even hear a single word about it.  The gospel of grace is that you already have been reconciled and received by God.  No unbelief or sin can cause God to change His mind.  God did something for you when you were still an enemy and not when you mustered up some religious believing.  To think God will just throw you away is ludicrous.  

I remember a man sharing how he believed his marriage was a mistake.  He shared disdain for his wife.  He then said that if he was able to go back in time that he would do the same thing all over again.  He said that he loves his children so much that he cannot imagine life without them so he would marry his wife again.  We might not like what he said about his wife but his comment about his children made me think about our Father.  The God who loved us so much decided not destroy this world and start all over but found us so precious that He died when we were His enemies.  This truly is a love that cannot let us go!

We are not to struggle over believing.  I do not even think about my believing.  I used to go looking for it to feel better about calling myself saved.  I viewed it as my ticket into heaven.  Religion told me that the moment I believed was when over 200+ things become true of me but it never gave lasting relief because I never knew I believed enough, the right way, or the right message.  I instead believe those 200+ things are already true and it results in believing.  There is no struggle to believe when you believe you already have. 

I only can believe what I become convinced of, so why would I examine my believing?  Why would I seek to become a believer in my own believing?  It would be, "God I know I believe so therefore I must be forgiven."

My believing has no power or merit.  My believing does not change or persuade God.  My believing only flows from what I hear.  If I am listening to the tree of knowledge or even religion who slithers from that tree then I believe the message that I am distant and alienated from God.  I would believe that I am ugly in His sight.  I would live life in guilt and shame as that would be the fruit of my belief.  If I hear the tree of life then I would believe the message that I am loved, forgiven, blessed, perfected forever, holy once for all, and so on.  One tree is uttering something that is no longer true of me.  Why would I listen to that tree?  Why would I live a life of shame? If you mixed the trees then you will be confused because all you will hear is "Shame on you!  You blew it again!  Are you sure you believed?  Are you sure?"

Again, believing comes from what we hear.  If tomorrow I discover something new that the bible reveals about me is when I “believe” it.  Today, I might be ignorant of many glorious truths but as more truths are revealed is when I will believe it.  Some would be thrilled to find out that they have been millionaires all along.  They did not believe to become millionaires but once they heard they were millionaires is when they believed it.  I do not believe to get but believe because I already have.   

If I start focusing on, “I do not feel myself to be believing” is when I just hanged my believing on the branch of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as I made a law out of believing.  My focusing on my believing is where I reach for shovels.  I might try reading more bible, praying more, and listening to Christian music to arouse some believing within my heart.  My shovel only uncovers more feelings of, “You are not believing.”  If I go looking for signs of believing is when I become fearful due to lack of evidences.  I begin thinking, “What shovel should I use to get out of this problem?”

I do not focus on my believing at all because there is 0% merit in it.  You can only believe what you know but if you believe that believing is how you "get" then it can never grow any larger.  The more my knowledge grows the more I believe and it is tied to a relationship with the Word and not the word printed in ink.  I can only believe what I am told is true.  I cannot be sure that I am believing if I am told that it is a prerequisite to have God keep my butt out of some hellfire nonsense forever.  With such a horrific fate that religion conjures up can leave NO ROOM FOR MISTAKES and that creates insecurity.  Why can't I believe?  I can never be sure I did the believing to His satisfaction.  He does not mail me a believing receipt in the mail.  I simply will be spending my life constantly trying to make sure I am doing this thing called believing and assuring myself that I actually believed when I prayed some religious prayer (sinner’s prayer) nonsense.   

That shovel called the sinner’s prayer was something I used to pray a thousand times.  I would pray slowly, “Jesus, I believe that YOU died for MY sins (I now pause as I focus upon what I said and hope to feel myself believing it).  I believe myself to be a rotten sinner worthy of hell (thanks to the tree of knowledge and all the religious lies, but I would pray such things to coerce God into being gracious with such a “rotten worm” as I).  I believe Jesus died (pause for a moment to make sure I am focusing upon His death), buried (paused again), and raised from the dead (paused again).”  It was, “If I just believe those things then I can be sure that my sins are forgiven.”  This is nothing more than a works gospel.

The people who have emailed me for help with assurance never expressed doubt in whether Jesus died, was buried, and rose again.  Can you find anyone in the NT who believed such things but were considered enemies of Christ or Paul?  Only when one mixes that message with the law is when trouble begins.  What these people struggle with is a law oriented mindset.  They still believe they are separated until they do certain things.  They believe Jesus died, was buried, and rose again but are waiting to see evidences of their believing.  They refuse comfort until their expectations are met.  As I said earlier, all the changes to take place have taken place.  You cannot be blessed with one more spiritual blessing in Christ.  You cannot be any more complete in Christ.  Perfected forever needs no assistance.  Holy once for all does not begin the moment you shovel or climb out of something.  It is hard for people to get their eyes off the response (believing) and onto the reality they are a part of because the believing is not a response to them but a condition.  I focus on the reality that I believe and not try to believe to be part of a reality.  

I spent a lot of time here on believing because this is the one area most believers struggle over.  People want to know, “How can I believe?” because they know they struggle with it thanks to how they were presented the gospel.  The next problem they have is that they expect their believing to produce results and if they cannot see results are to question their believing and this vicious cycle keeps repeating. 

If your child (or a child) asks you, “How can I believe the earth is round?” then would you say, “If you believe then it becomes round”?  If someone asks me, “How can I believe I am forgiven?” is not when I say, “If you will but believe 3 to 6 things God supposedly wants you to know then you will be forgiven.”  No, I share the truth of forgiveness of sins.  Religion wants you to do something to be forgiven but that is not being "freely" forgiven, as freely means without a reason or cause.  I begin sharing the truth of what God did for us while we were yet sinners.  I share how Jesus has taken AWAY the sin of the world.  How God is not imputing sin to the world.  How Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.  If you have to do something first to be forgiven by God then God clearly is imputing sin.  I do not say, “OK, now if you can believe that then your sins will be gone” as I will not hand anyone a fleshly shovel, as it is a lie contradicting "no separation, no condemnation, no imputation."  I preach the truth/reality that is to be believed.  I am essentially saying, “Jesus has deposited the check into your account” and not, “Jesus will deposit the check if….”  Believing is to be the result of what you hear and not the condition to get what you hear.

Be sure to hang believing on that dead plant representing the tree of knowledge because people have made it a law. 

Am I saying that believing is not important?  No, it is very important.  Without believing is to remain joyless.  Without believing is to remain lost as to your true surroundings.  Without believing is to remain feasting from the tree of knowledge.  Without believing is to remain in fear and uncertainty. 

All I am saying about believing is that it flows from truth.  Not the so-called truth that religion preaches where God might be nice to you if….  No, it is God HAS BEEN nice to you that you believe.  Jesus died for you regardless if you believe it or not.  Your unbelief cannot undo that reality.  You simply believed Jesus died for you because you believe it actually happened.  Even if you are not 100% convinced as that was never a requirement either but some confidence can produce joy.  I find being 20% convinced of a reality produces a measurable amount of joy.  We all experienced that.  You hear a truth that you are not totally convinced of but it is enough where it excites you to a certain extent.  We simply look for the point where our joy be made full and that happens as our relationship grows, but if your relationship depends on getting your sins under control and your believing just right then your relationship will be rotten. 

Believing the lies of religion/separation is much like falsely believing your spouse is cheating on you versus the other tree where you believe you are so loved by your spouse that he/she would never cheat on you.  The former leads to anxiety and depression while the latter leads to a comfortable bliss. Throw out your shovels.  Stop trying to climb out of the pit you believe yourself to be in.  Cast out the bondwoman and her son and live free!

Below are two videos that I recommend:






                                         

Matthew 10:28 Destroy body and soul in Gehenna?

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Dave, can you explain Matthew 10:28 because it seems to support annihilationism?

Here was the problem I had with my former annihilationist view of Matthew 10:28 as the context is quite revealing:

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.

30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

I see “fear him” and then “fear ye not (Him).”  Are believers only of “more value than many sparrows”?  It is clear that both believers/unbelievers are more valuable here than the sparrows.  Jesus was not distinguishing between believers and unbelievers.  He was not saying, “Unbelievers fear…Believers fear not.”  He told the disciples, “Fear him” before saying again, “Fear ye not (Him).” 

Matthew 10:26 reads:

26 Fear them nottherefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

Matthew 10:28 begins with:

And fear not them which kill the body….

Read the chapter and notice that Jesus was talking to the 12 and not talking about, “If they reject the death, burial, and resurrection gospel then fear the one who will annihilate them.”  This is what I find religion reading back into the verse. The disciples did not go forth and preach, "Fear Him who hath power to destroy your soul in Gehenna."  It was NEVER the message anywhere.  Annihilationists only have made this verse a proof text that total destruction awaits those who reject God but Jesus was not even teaching that to them. 

Jesus was saying that God is clearly capable of doing such a thing but the conclusion is that He would not because of human value.  There is no need to “fear them” who can kill the body and there is no “fear” of God killing the soul.  

Jesus talks about the human value of us elsewhere.  We are a coin that never lost its value.  Jesus will get on His hands and knees to find the coin lost and the word for "lost" is apollymi that annihilationists say refers to annihilationism in Matthew 10:28.  The lost (apollymi) son that was "dead" that obviously does not mean annihilated.  Jesus came for the lost (apollymi) sheep of the house of Israel.  The Son of Man came for that which was lost (apollymi).  We never lost our value and that is why we need not "fear not" our God because of the incredible value He placed on us.  He left His throne to come into our darkness.  He died for His enemies. A God who SO LOVED the world. To do all that and then annihilate them???

The Greek word apollymi was used 4 times in Matthew 10 and 3 of them clearly could not be referring to annihilationism and I doubt the one other verse implied that either. It does mean "death" in various places in scripture but to say that it means extinction (no resurrection) is a bit of a stretch as the dead (unbeliever/believer) are said to be resurrected but the annihilationist will claim the unbeliever is resurrection unto extinction and that is strange since I find no such verse about people raised consciously and then annihilated anywhere (I will talk about this later because only the dead are talked about and never dead people made conscious.  

This is where one normally takes their religious views and will funnel all verses that appear to contradict  them through certain texts.  It comes down to how one views God and scripture.  If you do not believe in the trinity then you will have great arguments to prove why.  If you believe in the trinity then you will great arguments to prove why.  If you believe in OSAS then you will have strong arguments that seems to support your position.  If you believe salvation can be lost then you will have strong arguments that seems to support your position as well.

My view is that God is love and I personally believe that all things have to be read with that in mind.  I know religion despises the love of God as they seek to limit it or read that God is Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde type of deity.  I know the Father was revealed through Jesus Christ and I have to consider things through whom Christ demonstrated Himself to be before others.  I do know that people can make the bible say just about anything, so I think it is best to consider some things about what annihilationism is actually saying through the lens of the love of God and the Father Jesus revealed. I'm sure that there are some here that thought God was very angry and hateful at one time but have later been exposed to grace.  You can attest to how you once thought the bible clearly portrayed an angry God who seemed hateful.  You now see the scriptures through the lens of love and grace and that changes how you see the book.  Such a lens is required to see what annihilationism is saying.   

Many fail to realize that the bible is very much about this life and hardly anything about the afterlife.  Our eyes have been trained to see Scripture that way by religion.  Pay attention to your New Testament reading and notice that the Bible is very much about our relationship to one another.  It tells us how to live with believers, spouses, and even the government. It is about enjoying life here on planet earth and not preparing to die and go to the afterlife. 

Jesus was the perfect image of the Father (if you seen me is to see the Father) so where do you see in the life of Jesus a man of annihilationistic tendencies?  Forgive 70 times 70...Turn the other cheek...Love one another because the day is coming when Jesus will annihilate them???  All judgment has been committed to the Son but where do you find Him annihilating anyone?  All judgment has been committed to Him but who is He condemning?  Surely the prostitute was to be annihilated?  Surely the woman caught in adultery was to be annihilated?  Not a chance!  I might see Him using the words "denying" but never annihilating.      

The other problem is that Gehenna was not a universal judgment of all people who ever lived.  It was never to all generations of people who lived.  It was to a specific people during a specific time.  Gehenna was clearly seen as here upon planet earth and never an after death experience.  If Gehenna was an after death experience then God contradicts Himself in Jeremiah 7:31:

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom (GEHENNA), to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

If Gehenna is an after death experience where God tosses people into then such a thought clearly came into God’s heart and He lied. 

Look up all references to Gehenna and try finding where you find a resurrection taking place where people go there as it does not exist.  Where is the universal warning of Gehenna preached? I would welcome a SINGLE verse that the world is said to be in danger of Gehenna.  The world was never warned of Gehenna.  Paul never warned Gentiles of Gehenna.  The Gentiles did not walk around with a pocket NT so where would they get the message of Gehenna?  

Gehenna was seen as a destruction of the “whole body.”  We can read about the consumption of flesh with “the worm dieth not” that comes from the OT referring to corpses and not people off in some spiritual realm forever dying but not dying as taught by hellfire advocates.  Look at Isaiah 66:24:

24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. 

Notice the words, “worm shall not die” and “neither shall their fire be quenched” because those words clearly are talking about dead humans upon planet earth being eaten of worms and a fire that will not be quenched.  Religion has twisted the same words used in the NT words to mean forever in some after death place called hell.  Clearly the fire is quenched and clearly the worm will die when there is nothing more to consume.  The fire is not quenched and the worm does not die until ALL is consumed is what is meant.  It is a complete destruction of the body. 

This is why I completely disregard the nonsense that Gehenna is the lake of fire.  The lake of fire was not a place where the dead were said to be consumed.  It was not a place of corpses where worms are enjoying a feast.  You read of figurative things cast into the lake of fire.  It was not a literal fire that religious people prefer.  If you believe the smoke, fire, and brimstone were real then in Revelation 9, the horse had smoke and brimstone coming out of its nose must be literal too???

Gehenna was not even seen as universal.  I can only find it relating to Israel back then and not now.  They were warned of a coming destruction that was upon the land of the living.  The lake of fire was not picturing a coming destruction.  Death itself was never said to be cast into Gehenna.  The beast and the false prophet was never said to be cast into Gehenna. These are things to consider.

I know the Pharisees believed in the immortality of the soul but the soul that sins shall die is what I know from the OT.  Soul was seen as some unseen immaterial part of man.It clearly was seen as different than the body here.  Some see it as the consciousness of man or our senses or desires.  Genesis says that God breathed into man the breath of life and he became a “living SOUL.” 

Look at 1st Corinthians 15:44-49 as we should notice what happens to mankind in general when it comes to this living soul:

 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Adam was the 'living soul' that shall die, but Christ was the quickening spirit.  What Adam brought was death but Christ brought life.  The Adam who was a living soul dies as I do not see it as immortal.  Paul makes it clear that in Adam ALL die but in Christ ALL shall be made alive.  Religion prefers to reword it to, “All in Adam die but those who get themselves in Christ will live.” It was never "All in Adam die..All in Christ made alive" but "In Adam all die...In Christ the all are made alive."

Look at 2nd Corinthians 5:14:

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

If one died for ALL then the same ALL are dead.  Look at 2nd Timothy 2:11:

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him

How many did Christ die for?  All.  How many died with Him?  All.  What happens to those who be dead with Him?  They shall also live with Him.  This is where our religious upbringing goes nuts with questions.  We immediately assume that I am talking about all going to heaven when no verse teaches that.  I am simply pointing out that if the “all died”  = “shall live” then annihilationism is a bit strange. 

Now some may try to point out that Paul said, “IF we be dead” as being a condition to having life with Christ is to misunderstand how Paul uses the word “if.”  The “if” in Paul’s writings are often a conclusion and not a condition.  Look again at 2nd Corinthians 5:14, “IF one died for all” clearly is not a condition but a conclusion.  If one died (He did) then ALL died with Him. 

Romans 8 is another reason why I reject annihilationism.  The God who “so loved the world” and how “nothing can separate us from His love” seems strange when there are those whom He so loved that will be forever separated from Him.  Colossians 1:20-21 teaches that God reconciled “ALL things” in Christ Jesus. To annihilate shows a God who is quick to throw away the reconciliation He made.  What sort of reconciliation is that?  Also, in Colossians 1:20-21, we have God who removed the alienation for the "all" and used the Greek Perfect Tense without any conditions after the GPT.  The Greek Perfect is stressing that this alienation is not only no more in the present but the no alienation carries on in permanency for the “all things.”  Annihilationism is God alienating Himself from the sinner that contradicts the verses of what God accomplished.  To say, “It is not God alienating Himself but the sinner wanted to have nothing to do with God” as that is reading words to justify your annihilationism.  What if the sinner would embrace God 2000 years from now?  Is your “god” that much of a quitter?  Is he that heartless? God might only give a man 20 years to make the right decision?  If that is the nonsense you believe then quote a Gehenna verse that says that???  Just one?? 

Here is what I said in my blog on annihilationism elsewhere:

Paul tells us that nothing shall separate us from His love in Romans 8.  Religion reads Romans 8 as to believers only.  The God who "so loved the world" was never a love that would prevent Him from separating from people.  Only those who believe will be loved by God differently than those who do not believe???  So we have God who loved His enemies so much that He died for them to only have them annihilated seems awfully weird to me.  God who is not imputing the sins to the world and has been reconciled to the world will annihilate the world of unbelievers???  Annihilate them for what?  Something has to be imputed now to annihilate them.  

God will annihilate those whom He "so loved" (John 3:16)???  Sorry, I see those in Romans 8 who "live after the flesh shall die" are still those that even "death" shall not separate them from His love.  If God could be reconciled to such people who are not even believers (2nd Cor. 5:19) and that His love died for them while they were UNGODLY and ENEMIES then it is a bit odd to say that death will bring their extinction.  Love hides a multitude of sins but I guess unbelievers have gone beyond the multitude.  Love is patient but I guess God's patience can run out with a man who lived 20 years who rejected their message. 

Annihilationism did to me what other "isms" had done.  They get you agreeing from the start and they keep going where you feel overwhelmed that you just heard truth when all they are doing is getting you to see words from their angle. I know people who have embraced annihilationism that later had questions popping into their heads making them question this belief of annihilationism.  I had that done to me with Calvinism and even Lordship Salvation.  Watch a Jehovah Witness share many verses as they try convincing the person that what they have shared is 100% biblical.  We simply begin seeing scripture their way.  Every time we see the words "perish" is to think that such a person is annihilated.  This is the same thing where hellfire advocates see the word "perish" and see "frying consciously in pain."
 

It seems very odd that God so loves us while we are alive and in the flesh but the moment we die is when He is quick to disregard us as trash and will incinerate us as such from existence.  

I read only one verse in Matthew about killing both body and soul but I fail to find such teaching in Paul’s message about unbelievers experiencing the death of the soul.   Where is the death of the soul talked about in the lake of fire? It is the dead figuratively standing before God but annihilationists believe the person is conscious because some will be punished longer than others before being annihilated.

When I hear Matthew 10:28 used to prove annihilationism is rarely to hear the context quoted.  Here is my question to you, “Who are the ones consigned to Gehenna?”  If they are those who reject the death, burial, and resurrection gospel then give me just one verse to prove that.  I will give you all of eternity to come up with a single verse.  It still does not stop hellfire advocates and annihilationists from using that verse to terrorize people about a “god” who will do such things if they do not believe the gospel or do not believe the gospel and get baptized.   

No matter how you look at it, annihilationism would be murder.  Annihilationists try to claim that God ceases to give the person life and that it is not murder but that is not exactly what they teach.  First of all, God is the one they believe casting people into Gehenna to annihilate them.  They also teach that some will be punished by God with few/many stripes as that is referring to how long they are consciously cooked before annihilated.  I do NOT find that nonsense taught but simply how they will take verses to make it fit with their nonsense.  What would the purpose of such a whooping?  "I am going to punish you until you forever forget about it because you are soon to be annihilated"?  I see that as murder and disturbing.

The next time someone quotes to you Matthew 10:28 as a proof text for annihilationism then ask, “Who goes there?”  Let them answer before saying, “OK, prove it?”  Ask them to show you from the writings of Jesus what they are claiming.  Ask them to quote all 12 verses on Gehenna and prove the types of people they claim will be going there.  They instead will try to string a bunch of verses together that are not even talking about Gehenna so be watchful.  They will read the word "perish" as meaning annihilated and will try to connect it to Gehenna in Matthew 10:28.  I can quote all the verses on Gehenna and not one of them says about perishing in Gehenna due to the rejection of the gospel of grace.

Also, the next time you hear, “Fear him who has power to destroy both body and soul” is to point out that the message was ONLY to the disciples and was not a message they went about to preach.  Point out that it was not a threat.  Jesus was telling them not to fear man but if anyone they could fear would be God that would be able to kill both body and soul but it never said that He does.  It only says that He is "able" and not that He would.  Also, Jesus said that they (us) are more valuable than the sparrows and that we are not to fear Him.  God is "able" but the context reveals that if you are going to fear anyone then be God.  Why fear those that can kill the body when there is one able to kill both body and soul?  However, God values you so there is nothing to fear.  He is able but He is not going to do such a thing, so FEAR NOT. 

I will point out that Jesus spoke the same message to a crowd in Luke 12, but again, He says again to "fear not" for the very same reason.  Am I to assume that the crowd had nobody to be annihilated in it when He said, "fear not" as He shared their great value to God???  It only says that He has the "power" to cast one in but nowhere stated that it was something He would do.

Remember, Jesus conquered death but if we are going to talk about the billions annihilated or even one person annihilated makes me doubt Jesus conquered a single thing.  All things reconciled and draw nigh by the blood but nearly all things annihilated?   These things just do not add up.  I never see anyone fearing of not being reunited with their loved ones anywhere in the NT.  Too many questions are raised from this horrible teaching.  

Also, Jesus said that the religious leaders sought to "destroy" Him (apollymi) but I doubt we would assume that to mean that the religious leaders sought to annihilate Him.  The word can mean kill and it also means ruin or lost. Just one look at every use of the word apollymi is to see how hard (if not impossible) it is to translate it to mean annihilate or bring to extinction.  The flood "destroyed" the world but it did not annihilate the world.  Wineskins were said to be apollymi but that clearly does not imply annihilate.  This word was used many times and it is odd that it would mean annihilate in a few places.  

Of all the verses on Gehenna is to make me seriously question the teachings of annihilationism as the verses do not support an after death annihilation.  Matthew 10:28 was not even a warning of judgment that God was going to do to a single person.  This is only what religion has read back into it.  

I do not believe everyone will experience the same joys in the life to come.  I believe the same joys are offered to all.  I believe all are bidden to drink of the same water.  I do believe eternal life is “knowing Him” (John 17:3 refers to the quality of life) but immortality simply refers to the quantity.  I believe all will be made alive in Christ.  The question is whether man will still choose to hold on to his/her lies they embraced here.  Will darkness still hide from the light that John 3 defined as “condemnation?”  God’s love will never let them go but will they let go of the lies they embraced?  I honestly believe they will let go of the lies at some point in eternity.  I do believe every knee will bow and tongue will confess.  I do believe Jesus is the “savior of all” and is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD so to say that some will be annihilated seems contradictory to me.  I do not see God as the quitter.  Annihilationism is not the answer to the sin problem as God did so much by sending His Son and to just throw in the towel on some man or lady is not in the nature of God.  He already resolved the sin problem so what in the world is annihilationism?

Do my views keep changing? If so, is that bad?

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Dave, I’ve noticed your views have changed over the years so how do you know what you believe now is correct?  Do you think you finally got it right?

I was asked such a question before by email and was even asked by someone in church years ago.  This is why I see people afraid to admit that they can be wrong.  They think having a belief that changes implies you can never be sure of what you believe in now.  They often will refuse to change what it is they were taught to believe (closed mindedness).  It causes people great stress to have their views challenged.  I have had people who you would have thought were having an asthma attack due to fear when I presented some arguments against what they were saying.

When I have a discussion with someone who asked me to engage in a religious discussion but end up resorting to insults hurled at me tells me that they do not want to let on that they have no argument and are fearful to have their beliefs questioned.  When I hear someone say, “Oh wow!  You are sooooo lost!” is when I know they are lost in what to say next and need to buy some time in the discussion by whipping such useless phrases.  They do not want to admit that they simply do not know. It is OK to not know but not with religious people.

Religious people only love absolutes and hate mysteries.  They believe I am not to be trusted because my views change but not theirs.  Their beliefs were handed down to them by certain men they deem as great and to challenge them is challenging God Himself is how they see it.  I am telling you to ahead and challenge everything you believe as lightning will never strike. 

My views are constantly changing and I love it as I soon will explain.  I know I will have to go through many of my blogs to update them.  I have to say that if your views are not changing then you probably are not growing.  Growing is not, “I just learned a new and better argument to defend my denomination or belief.”  It is not, "I just learned what supralapsarianism is."  This is why many are looking for the latest new book to paint a nice picture of their religious god that they can call growth.  If they do not find the latest book is when they often feel that they are stagnant in their growth process. 

My growth process when religious was full of confusion and anxiety.  I would read some answer that often produced more questions than answers.  One moment, I would read something that would give my heart some peace and assurance but it would not be long before I read something again that gave me doubts and feelings of despair.  This constantly was going on all the time while I was in religion.  Most of my studies back then were either to find lasting assurance or it was to polish my arguments against those who opposed my views. 

When I am asked today if I am sure of what I believe is when I have a very different answer than what I would have given when I was religious.  Yes, I am very sure what I believe and am assured that when my views change that they only get better.  They only make what I formerly believed clearer in most cases.  My views changing today NEVER produce an ounce of anxiety.  NOTHING I discover produces anxiety or confusion.  My views changing today do not cause me to drop to my knees crying like I used to do when religious, "Oh God!  Where are you?  Did I do something wrong?  I fear what I just read in my bible?  Am I an apostate?  Did I sin you away?  Please restore to me the joy of my salvation.  Have mercy upon me!"  That is NEVER growth!  That is what religion often calls normal that explains why so many are content with being miserable. 

My views changing today only get better and better.  The love of God continually expands and overwhelms me.  Grace keeps abounding more than I beheld it before.  I know it is limitless but my spiritual understanding can only take in so much at a time.  My understanding saw grace one day as 3000 miles high but it might be 4000 miles high the following week.  I will change my blog that said 3000 miles high to 4000 miles high.  What I learn never produced anxiety filled questions.  What I see only gets better and clearer.  It makes me drop to my knees in awe.  I walk under the umbrella of God's love and enjoy His embrace.  My growth does not make that a reality one day and produce despair the next.  It simply grows.  Do you find that bothersome?  I would only find it bothersome if someone said, “I was Catholic but I became a Baptist and then an Episcopalian to Jehovah Witness to atheism to Muslim to Hinduism.”  That is a confused individual. My views are only getting clearer.  I do not go from rest to unrest to rest.  I go from resting in a soft bed to a softer bed. 

I definitely will have to go through my blog because I have much updating to do.  I'm actually considering a new blog.  However, you will discover that the changes made do not go from good to bad.  They go from good to better.  I love this kind of growth as it only gets better.  It is similar to being a 90 year old man getting younger as it only gets better for him.  When I was religious was like going from 16 years old (exciting at first) to 90 years in matter of months.  Every time I thought I was running was when I would experience either a spiritual sprained ankle or a busted leg.  Something would paralyze me for a while where I had to keep studying or seeking help to hopefully get through it.  That's growth?  That was hell on earth.   

I am not bouncing around with ‘isms that you find religious people doing (today I am a Calvinist and tomorrow an Arminianist).  I am not seeking to strengthen my arguments as religious people do, as they love to have memorized arguments from their favorite author. 

All I do know is what I am persuaded of.  What I am persuaded of continually grows.  I am persuaded of the love of God and no condemnation and no separation.  What I might say about such things may appear my views have changed but they actually deepened. You will find that religious people attack such things as the unconditional love of God, no condemnation, and no separation or they put limitations on them.  Preach the unconditional love of God is to see it attacked and a people hating you.  Preach no condemnation is to be condemned by religious people.  Preach no separation is to find religious people separating from you.  

The changes in what you believe are called repentance (the joy of renewing the mind).  If you experience no changes in what you believe can be called closed mindedness.  If you are silly enough to say, “My Baptist church has got it right and I refuse to think otherwise” is to never enjoy growth.  Your relationship is only with your denomination or ‘ism. Your so-called growth can only be enjoyed by the latest book that seeks to paint an even better picture by using more colorful words to describe what it is they already teach. This is why those goosebumps you sometimes feel from a song or something you read is growth to you when it actually is meaningless. It is goosebumps today and despair tomorrow and that was my religious experience before.   

When people ask me, “Your views seem to be constantly changing” is when I say, “Hallelujah!” in my mind because someone is validating my growth.  If my view of the love of God is exactly the same as it was 5 years ago then am I really growing?  God opens the understanding and floods it with things you can never understand or behold in a book written in ink.  Do not have a relationship with words written in ink but with the Word made flesh.  You too will see how you have been shackling God and erecting veils that kept you from experiencing true growth. 

Keep in mind that if you are a grace believer who reads or listens to other grace teachers is to know that what they share about God's grace and love are never as good as the true reality, as the reality is far better.  They can only share what they believe and know at this point in life.  They can share the love of God with you today and it might be absolutely wonderful but give them another 10 years and what they share about the love of God will be even better.  Ask them if their view of God's love remained exactly the same over the years and have never changed.  Ask them if their view of God's love grew at all.  Do you think they are bothered by such continual changes in how they beheld something?  Does that mean they do not know what they are talking about because it might change later?  No, we love raisins but love when we get apples but it gets even better when served watermelons.  It just keeps getting better! 

I do not know where you are at in your growth process because you might only be able to handle (understand) raisins but as you grow is when you will be loving the watermelons.  When I was religious was when I was eating dust.  I was in the thorns and briers and shared it with others.  It was shocking to notice that they too suffered the same unhealthy spiritual symptoms as I did but I did believe my symptoms were normal because Pastor Peace Pooper said so.  I thought I was eating nutritious foods but they were killing me all along.  I viewed the raisins, apples, and watermelons as dangerous and damnable doctrine of demons. 

Growth going backwards is religion to me.  Growth that produces anxiety is religion.  Growth that is about being able to better understand something to debate others is religion.  Is it not time that we stop being so closed minded and cast out the bondwoman and her son and enjoy the freedom to which we were called?  Get rid of miserable religion.  

As I discovered myself a long time ago, being closed-minded is what kills growth.  We often do not realize how closed minded we are because there is something we believe that we are not willing to let go of.  Ask God to reveal your veils.  Ask God to reveal what beliefs you are holding that is veiling growth.  Be willing to question everything you ever were taught. Start realizing that lot of the scary things your religion told you was only said to keep you from straying from them.  When you hear, "The devil will give you peace to make you think the error you are hearing is true" is not from the bible but from a pastor that is a control freak. You should ask him, "Then why is your "god" unable to do what the your so-called devil can?"  You just might realize that your pastor is a messenger of death and does not produce life and peace in the Spirit.   Find out what is keeping you from challenging what it is you believe because that most likely is your veil.

The Lake of Fire

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I am rewriting my blog on the Lake of Fire because I spent too much time talking about Gehenna, Luke 16, and other things that I later written blogs on those various topics/verses.  I am planning on just sharing exactly what it is I believe concerning what scares so many. I know what it is I believe about the lake of fire and will do my best to convey that here with you.  You will have to excuse the many rambling thoughts I initially share before I dive deep into the subject.  I sometimes like to share the thoughts that pop into my head and not necessarily put them in a specific order but I do hope this will answer your questions and relieve your heart of the fear religion instilled in it.   

What exactly is the lake of fire?  Is it literal?  If one were to honestly look at the entire book of Revelation would find it hard to take most things as literal (remove your candlestick, death riding on a horse, ten heads, beasts, wings, and so on).  Revelation uses a great deal of figurative words that those who tell you that the lake is literal ignores this fact. 

What is the lake of fire?  It is the second death.  Second death to what?  I believe that is defined in Revelation 20:14:

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Death and “hades” (realm of the dead) were cast into the lake of fire…this is the second death.  It is death to the first death.  I also see it as a death to the old as well, and I will explain that in this blog. 

What about those who see the lake of fire as literal?  The problem with making the lake of fire literal is that we have non-literal things being cast into it.  How do you throw a death into a supposed literal lake of fire?  How do you throw the beast that represented the political/religious system into it? 

When religion tells me that fire and brimstone is literal is when I ask them if the horses literally had smoke, fire, and brimstone coming out of its mouths:

17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.(Revelation 9:17).

Revelation 9:17 says that “out of their mouths ISSUED fire and smoke and brimstone” so do you believe that as literal?  I tell people that my mouth is on fire when I eat spicy Mexican food that I love but I doubt anyone is taking the fire literally.  This is simply religion twisting a verse to scare the "hell" in you even though the lake of fire was never once called hell.

Often people picture the lake of fire as a lava lake.  I agree that it “represents” a lake but what if the fire is God Himself?  Read Daniel 7 and notice the similar language you are reading in Revelation.  Look at Daniel 7:9-10:

I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened ("books were opened" exact same thing stated in Revelation 20:12).

God is a consuming fire but does that mean God is literal fire?  The lake of fire is nothing more than whom?  God!  It is not in some other dimension, another planet, bottom of the ocean, or in a volcano as I have heard some on Youtube claiming that they know because of some vision they claimed to have.  Every vision I hear on the lake of fire shows many “gods” all contradicting themselves as to the true location of the lake of fire. 

Just search for yourself and notice how God’s presence is often seen as fire.  The burning bush is one.  God is a consuming fire.  We read about a fire that came from God and consumed upon the altar a sacrifice (Leviticus 9:24).  There is a fire we read about upon Mt. Sinai, as God was said to have descended in fire (Ex. 19:18).  How about the pillar of fire in Exodus 13:21?  There are still more verses showing the fire pictures His presence.  Religion will agree but when you say the lake of fire is God Himself is where many hellfire advocates get upset because they want it to be some dimension or place where God is not at.  They want to believe it to be the same as 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 “from the presence of the Lord” but fail to realize that such a phrase was used more than once in the bible and it never meant a literal away from God. Adam and Eve hid themselves "from the presence of the Lord" (Genesis 3:8) but that did not mean God was no longer with them.  Cain went out "from the presence of the Lord" (Gen. 4:16) but that does not mean God abandoned him.  Jonah went "from the presence of the Lord" (Jonah 1:3, 10).  Times of refreshing comes "from the presence of the Lord" (Acts 3:19).  I fail to see it mean what hellfire or annihilationists claim.  See my blog on 2nd Thess. 1:8-9:

The lake of fire issues forth from God Himself, as God is the lake of fire.  The Greek word for brimstone is theion.  Here is Strong’s definition of brimstone:

divine incense, because burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease

If the above is true then are we dealing with a destructive God or a restorative God?  Is death cast into the lake of fire swallowed up in victory?  Is Christ victorious over all things?  What is God’s purpose in casting the “dead” in Revelation 20 into the lake of fire?  Was it to literally torture them?  Was it to annihilate them?  Was it to bring man to the end of himself as one author had stated? Was it enemies now subdued that Paul said was to happen in 1st Corinthians 15? 

Some believe the lake of fire is the same as Gehenna.  Gehenna never flowed from God.  Look at Jeremiah 7:31:

31 And they have built the high places of Tophet, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom (GEHENNA), to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my heart.

If God casts people into a Gehenna then it clearly came into His heart and He lied to us.  Gehenna in the NT was language used to describe a physical destruction to come upon a specific people upon planet earth.  It was limited to a specific people during a specific time.  No Gentile was ever warned of Gehenna.  Physical bodies were cast into Gehenna (whole body…your members).  Gehenna was never stated as the consequence for rejecting the death, burial, and resurrection gospel.  Nobody was said to be raised to go to Gehenna.  Gehenna was NEVER described as an after death experience.  It was a warning to the land of the living but only to a specific people (Jews) during a time of great persecution.  Try finding Gehenna applying to anyone outside of Israel anywhere.  Do try finding anyone raised to go to Gehenna anywhere. 

One problem I see is that those cast into the lake of fire are still alive and well in the very next chapter when death is said to be no more.  I know people read “death is no more” as literal no more physical death but that is another topic.  My point is that death was cast into the lake of fire along with those whose names were not written in the book of life but we still read about them in chapter 21.  Chapter 21 is about the new heavens/new earth and death no more.  Obviously death being no more implied it was cast into the lake of fire but why do we still read about those who supposedly were cast into the lake of fire?  This is where I heard some people conjure up ridiculous ideas to keep their religion of a nasty god.  There are scholars who admit the problem here but I have religious people who think they have a plausible answer and will whip something up nowhere stated at all in Revelation 21.  Look at Revelation 21:27:

27 And there shall in no wise enter into itany thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Ask yourself, “Enter what?”  What is the “it” in the context?  Find out what the “it” is and you will see how the “it” came after the lake of fire and not before.  Those whose names were not written were cast into the lake of fire but now we see that they are the same ones who do not enter the “it” here of the context.  They are still alive and not frying or annihilated.  The "it" is not heaven or another dimension.  It is pictured here as earth, as we never left planet earth.  It is the new earth and it says the "NATIONS of the saved go in" this city.  Those on the outside are still and always offered the water of life.  Nobody was warned that time was running out as we hear in religion.

This is not heaven and hell we are talking about here in Revelation 21.  I see a spiritual teaching here and not a literal teaching as I do not expect a New Jerusalem to come down from the sky with streets of gold.  I could not believe when I heard a pastor claim that he saw the streets of gold and pearly gates in a near death experience.  That was nearly as bad as those who claimed to see people moaning and wailing in a volcano they defined as the lake of fire.

What I find interesting is how religious people get upset with those who claim the lake of fire purifies because of the word brimstone.  It is amazing that they get disgusted with believing that this fires purifies but there are more than one commentary that claims the “fire” in Mark 9:49 is about purifying people:

49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

They simply see the fire as punitive to the one and purifying to the other, but some admit that fire can be for purification.  Amazing, they accept that fire purifies in one place but rejects it in another.

It is interesting to hear hellfire advocates claim a purifying fire to the believer but something other to the unbeliever.  Hellfire believers claims that salt “preserves” the person so that he/she can be eternally cooked without literally dying (nowhere taught).  That actually is twisting the words of Jesus because nobody is said to be salted here with salt but rather with fire (salted with fire).  I will point out that some believe the verse speaks to the disciples that they will go through fiery trials. 

Not sure why people struggle so much with a non-literal fire interpretation of Revelation 20.  God is a consuming fire and nobody believes that is a literal fire.  Our works shall be tried by fire in 1stCorinthians 3 and nobody believes that to be a literal fire. They just hate that this fire could be God Himself and are threatened by a gospel of unconditional love that does not see God as they do. These religious people do speak of that fire that will try our works will be in His parousia (presence) but refuse to accept the lake of fire as coming from the presence of God. 

The lake of fire is used by hellfire advoates to scare people even though Paul never once taught it because what John saw and shared was never to be taken as literal.  Some will add a scare tactic upon their own scare tactic because they do not like the fact that their original scare tactic is losing effectiveness by thinking people.  Look at a quote by David Stewart on the lake of fire:

The next time you burn yourself in the oven or get burned with a spat of hot oil from a frying-pan, remember that this is only a small sample of how you'll spend eternity.  Scare tactics you say?  Are you really willing to risk it?  The choice is yours. 

The above is how hellfire advocates talk and it is NOT the language of Scripture.  They present a very sick “god” stooping so low as claiming “literal fire is just payment for your sin” that is nowhere taught.  God’s so-called loving answer to sin is throwing you into a literal fire?  What did God say never entered His heart in Jeremiah 7:31 and what do hellfire advocates claim God will supposedly do? See the problem?  Religion has God doing what He said that never entered His heart. 

Jesus came to reveal the Father because the view of God in the OT written by man was seriously skewed.  Jesus came to reveal the Father and He was not the tyrant people made Him out to be.  Judge what you read through the actions of Jesus Christ.  Is what you are hearing in the pulpit, books, or online sounding like the Christ of the bible or the Pharisees we read about in the bible?    

I said in another blog that I view much of Revelation as past.  I see it addressing churches and people that no longer exist today.  I see words, “I come quickly” that only religion changes into 2000+ years that makes no sense.  A 1000 years is but as a day to the Lord but not to us, but that does not stop religion from quoting that.  Jesus spoke in a language we could understand, so "I come quickly" is something we understand and not 1000 years is but as a day.  It is a day to Him but not us.  It is quick to Him but not us.  When Jesus says to John, “I come quickly” that supposedly meant 2000+ years later is ridiculous.  It would be the same as telling my wife that I am going to the store to buy some milk and will be back shortly but I return 3 years later.  "Hey!  What is 3 years out of a possible 40+ year married?  It is but a blink of an eye there honey!"  Do you think she would accept that answer?  

Look at how Revelation 1 begins:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass….

If I were to interpret “shortly” the same way religion does then Acts 22:18 should read:

18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalemwithin the next 2000+ years: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

Of all the times “shortly” were used, it never once implied future generations.  Look at Revelation 22:6:

And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Shortly, as in 2000+ years?   That is just silly.  You will even find religion claiming that when Jesus said, “This generation shall not pass” in Matthew 24 referred to a future generation.  Really?  Just look up “this generation” in a Strong’s Concordance and try finding just one verse where “this generation” referred to 1000+ years later, but they read Matthew 24 through their literal eyes and since it contradicts what their literal eyes see is for them awaiting a rebuilding of some future Temple that will be destroyed again.  Jesus referred to the Temple that was standing (clearly referred to that existing temple and not another) and said that it would be destroyed but religion claims that Jesus was referring to a future rebuilding of a Temple in Israel.  Good luck finding that taught anywhere in your bible as it simply does not exist. There is no talk about a rebuilding of a temple in the bible.  This is why they have to change "this generation" into some generation in the future.  

Below is a link to Strong's Concordance for you to look and see where "this generation" means anything other than the current generation:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/search/search.cfm?Criteria=this+generation&t=KJV&ss=1#s=s_primary_0_1

I see Revelation picturing a victorious gospel and John trying to convey what he is seeing the best he can relate it.  It’s a shame that religion takes such language and tries to make it literal.   

We read about the “kings of the earth” trying to hide from the pursuing lamb but lamb is alwayspictured as redemptive but we read about the same “kings of the earth” in Revelation 21 as now bringing honor into the city.  They have been conquered and subdued.  However, religion sees the “wrath of the Lamb” and define that wrath through the eyes of human wrath that was said to be a sin of the flesh in Galatians 5.  Wrath simply refers to strong emotion.  If God is love then what is wrath?  

See my video blog on the loving wrath of God:




Literalists teach a war between God and this devil up in heaven that supposedly will one day happen and that many will witness it.  They see the lake of fire as a final place for the wicked with no chance of parole and that it is a literal fire.  The sad thing is that they miss the victorious Christ who triumphs over all, but religious people only see some destructive Jesus (unlike the real one who came to reveal the loving heart of the Father).  Compare the Jesus of the gospels to what you were taught He is going to be like and notice that the religious Jesus is clearly not the same. 

I do like to point out how my view of 1stCorinthians 15 and Romans 5 is often criticized by religious people because I believe “all” will be made alive.  They criticize my belief that “in Christ ALL shall be made alive” but these hellfire advocates believe and teach that unbelievers will receive a resurrected body.  What is that?  If you receive a resurrected body and have consciousness then you believe that all are made alive too but in a perverted and sick way. 

Annihilationists believe unbelievers will be resurrected to only be annihilated again in Revelation 20.  All one has to do is read with their eyes opened and notice that NOBODY is alive in Revelation 20 as it says the DEAD are figuratively standing before God where nobody is talking, reasoning, fearing, seeing, or doing a single thing which is quite consistent with someone who is dead. 

I am not going to go into all the reasons I believe Revelation proclaims a victorious gospel through such colorful stories you find presented in Revelation.  I certainly do not believe a New Jerusalem will be floating down from the clouds but rather pictures God now dwelling with us.  The problem with religion is how they refuse to accept spiritual meaning and prefer many parts of Revelation to be taken literally. 

I do see the lake of fire as picturing a dead to the old and the ushering in of the new.  Look at 2ndCorinthians 5:17:

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

What would you say was the reason for old things passed away and all things have become new?  Would you agree that Jesus Christ, Calvary, and His resurrection were why?  Would you agree that old things passed away and all things new are not referring to something 2000+ years away?  I am seriously asking you to answer that question to yourself right now.  I know you do agree because I have not met a single believer who said, “I am still waiting for old things to pass away and to become a new creation” as we are now a new creation.

I said that I see Revelation as a victorious gospel, so look now at Revelation 21:4 and notice the similarity to what Paul said in 2ndCor. 5:17:

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. (Old things passed away – Paul)

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new(all things are become new – Paul).  And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Are you saying the above verses are still future?  If so, are Paul and John here saying the same words but not meaning the same thing?  We turn into literalists in a book that clearly uses symbolic and figurative language everywhere. We ignore the many things we know will not literally take place and focus on other things written in the book and will say, "I have not seen this happen yet so it cannot be true." 

Look at Revelation 21:1:

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Tell me, when did the above happen?   You probably will say, “It has not yet happened” but I beg to differ.  Look at 2ndPeter 3:10:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away(The first earth were passed away – John) with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Also, 2nd Peter 3:12:

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved(the heavens shall pass away – John), and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

I was taught in religion that this is World War 3 and this is a nuclear war.  The above is actually referring to the OLD system.  The word “elements” in verse 12 NEVER referred to planet earth but the very things that kept us in bondage (law, man’s laws, regulations).  Below is a link from Strong’s Concordance for you to see all the verses that uses the same Greek word for “elements” to see this for yourself:

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G4747&t=KJV 

Also, see my 4 minute Youtube video on 2nd Peter 3:10 for fuller explanation:




Now look at 2nd Peter 3:13:

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Again, we judge with literal eyes thanks to religion and we see murder and other terrible events currently going on and we believe we cannot be in the new earth/new heaven.  If we are not then the Law and the Temple must still exist but we know that was done away with. The new heaven/new earth happened with the destruction of the old. 

Look at Revelation 21:3:

And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

When did the above happen?  It already happened.  We have a God no longer restricted to a people (nation) but all people.  It is similar to Jesus who “dwelt among us” (John 1:14) as God now dwells among us. 

1st Corinthians 3:16 reads:

16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Temple is where God dwells.  Look at 2nd Corinthians 6:16:

16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are(already reality) the temple of the living God; as God hath said,I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people(compare to Revelation 21:3: they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God – John).

God dwells with us and in us.  Revelation 21:3 is not future but a present reality as the above verse proves it.  This is not something we have to wait for, but since we were taught by religion that we would literally be in a city of light with streets of gold along with pearly gates that we refuse to see it any other way.  The old has passed away and all things have become new.  The old is gone but religion has you believing you are still in it. Death, war, and a floating Jerusalem is exciting to a people who are full of dead men bones.  I used to love things that seemed so exciting because my spiritual life was so dry thanks to religion.  This is why people love the 'Left Behind' series because they view the excitement as fuel for serving their "god" who has yet to deliver the abundant life. 

I see much of Revelation as past and simply do not see the “Behold, I come quickly…shortly come to pass” with many verses addressing specific churches and people who were once alive as something still future.  The ‘Left Behind’ books are exactly what we should leave behind as it is pure nonsense.

I see the lake of fire as something past as the dead were all included in Christ.  I see the "dead in sin" as those "made alive" in Ephesians 2.  Ephesians 2 uses words, "in times past" that if you read carefully is to realize that it was describing us before Calvary.  You will see in the same chapter that Gentiles were "in times past" alienated "but now" (after Calvary) they are made nigh by the blood (not by believing).  The words "in times past" or "at that time" pointed to before Calvary.  It is very clear that the dead in sin was before Calvary but God did something about that.  We were made alive in Christ by His grace and not our cooperation with Him.  It plainly says in verse 5 that even when we (all) were dead was when He quickened us.  Stop changing the passage to read, "You were dead until you believed" as no verse teaches that.  When you see the word "were" followed by "but" or "but God" then know that your cooperation is nowhere implied.  You were (before Calvary) but God (after Calvary). 

2ndCorinthians 5:14 reads:

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

How many did Christ die for in the above verse?  All.  Are you sure?  It does say “if one died for all” so I want to make sure you believe that He died for all.  Yes, Christ did die for all.  If Christ died for all then how many are dead?  Some or all?  It clearly says all, so what shall we do with 2nd Timothy 2:11:

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him

Dave, it clearly says, “IF” and “if” is a condition.  Really?  Do you remember me asking you a minute ago whether you believed Jesus died for all because it said, “IF one died for all”?  

If you look up when Paul uses the word “if” is almost always see him using it as a conclusion and not as a condition.  Jesus died for all and all have died but if all are dead with Him then they shall also live with Him is what is stated. 

If all have died with Him then verse 17 applies to the same all:

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Religion reads the above as a “condition” but the “therefore” does not agree with them.  It just pointed to what Christ accomplished on behalf of all.  We all were buried with Him in baptism unto death and not those who believed the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection that religion claims you have to do in order to get “in Christ” that simply is not taught.  In Christ is the person you are.  You were "in Christ" at Calvary.  You were "in Christ" when He died.  You were "in Christ" in His resurrection.  The old things have died and the new you emerged "in Christ" whether you believe that or not.  You do not believe the gospel so God can give you everything but you believe because you already have everything.  We are complete in Christ but most (especially believers) live ignorant of that fact.  

Religious people hate the above as it contains no conditions, as you just believe something that is already true.  No waiting period for instant joy.  You already have the winning lotto ticket but if you will but look at it is when your financial woes are instantly gone under the realization that you are filthy rich.  Some claim that I am an unbeliever when I believe I am forgiven, loved, redeemed, righteous, holy, and perfected forever because I believe such things without all the conditions (pray a prayer, do this and that, and all the other crutches they give) religion tosses back into the gospel.  I have none of the obstacles that religion throws into the gospel that has so many people struggling over whether they belong to Him or not.  I do not ask myself, "Did I truly believe on such and such a date?"  I just remember the one who died, rose, and forever lives!  I died with Him and shall live with Him.     

Here is the footnote given in the Mirror Bible on 2nd Corinthians 5:17:

In the light of your co-inclusion in His death and resurrection, whoever you thought you were before, in Christ you are a brand new person!  The old way of seeing yourself and everyone else are over.  Acquaint yourself with the new!  (Just imagine this!  Whoever a person was as a Jew, Greek, slave or freeman, Boer, Zulu, Xhosa, British, Indian, Muslim or American, Chinese, Japanese or Congolese; is now dead and gone!  They all died when Jesus died!  Remember we are not talking law language here!  The ‘If’ in, “If any man is in Christ” is not a condition, it is the conclusion of revelation of the gospel!  Man is in Christ by God’s doing [1st Cor. 1:30 and Eph. 1:4].  The verses of 2 Corinthians 5:14-16 give context to verse 17!  For so long we studied verse 17 on its own and interpreted the ‘if’ as a condition!  Paul did not say, “If any man is in Christ,” he said, “THEREFORE if any man is in Christ…”  The “therefore” immediately includes verses 14 and 16!  If God’s faith sees every man in Christ in His death, then they were certainly also in Christ in His resurrection.  Jesus did not reveal a “potential” you, He revealed the truth about you so that you may know the truth about yourself and be free indeed!)

It amazes me how I can get a religious person to finally admit, "Yes, all have died with Christ" before they throw in a "but" and when you see or hear a "but" from a religious person is to hear the "do do" flowing from that "but" (butt).  As one preacher said that all that comes out of a but (butt) is do-do (you must do this and you must do that).  They admit that we have ALL died with Him but will reject the clear cut conclusion also given in Romans 6:5:

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

We ALL have been planted in the likeness of His death, so we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection.  How can you agree to the one clause as unconditional and then make the second conditional? 

The word “all” is not a well-accepted word among religious people but this is where religion does not like an unconditional gospel.  They think, "Why should those unbelieving people be included because, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment (prodigal son parable).”  This reveals the heart of religious people.  They believe those who go to the lake of fire are those who have rejected the death, burial, and resurrection gospel when it nowhere says that.  I will discuss that shortly. 

Here are a some “all” verses that religion has to immediately limit and I will be spending a little time here discussing the things religion attacks and limits:

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all(Romans 11:32). 

If God is to have mercy upon those whom He concluded in unbelief then why do we think one must first believe in order to obtain mercy?  If I said, "I concluded them all penniless so I can forgive their debt" then do I imply that the penniless person must have money before I can forgive him/her of their debt?  If God concluded all in unbelief then do you have to muster up belief to find mercy?  Unbelief does not disqualify man for mercy at all. 

Who is he that condemns?  Who shall separate us from His love?  God did everything while we were enemies, sinners, ungodly, and without strength.  If He did all those things when we were such things then what further can you do that will stop Him from ever loving you?  NOTHING!

10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL men, specially of those that believe(1stTimothy 4:10).

Religion loves to claim that He is the potential savior of all men but that does not fly at all.  Look at similar wording in Galatians 6:10:

10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Savior of ALL MEN, SPECIALLY of those that believe
Let us do good unto ALL MEN, ESPECIALLY unto them who are of the household of faith.

If it is potential in the first then it must be potential in the second as well.  Are we to potentially do good unto all men?  No, so He is not the potential Savior of all men but rather the Savior of all men.  He truly is the Savior of the world (1stJohn 4:14).  Only religion has to limit “all” and “world” to fit their conditional beliefs of a "god" who only went so far with you but you must do your part. 

The Bible tells us that every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess but what do religious people do to that verse?  They change it and will tell you that every tongue shall confess before being hurled into the lake of fire that is NOWHERE taught.  Again, nobody is talking or doing any confessions in Revelation 20.  Religion wants their hellish god who is so strict with his demands where most are in danger of burning forever. 

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many(Romans 5:15).

We know the “many” implies all.  Look at verse 19:

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Were “many” made sinners or have “all have sinned”?  The many again implies all.  Now in verse 15, to say that "all" are dead because of Adam but "some" will be made alive contradicts what your own eyes can clearly see.  The same “many” who died are the same “many” who are made alive in the context.   

Also, to say, “All be dead in the first Adam, MUCH MORE, only some will live” in the last Adam is an absolute joke.  How is that a “much more” certainty being implied?  In religion, there is "much more" certainty that all will die in the first Adam than the "much more" all being made alive in Christ.  In fact, there is "much more" uncertainty among believers about being made alive in Christ because they bounce around the internet and reading books trying to find assurance.  

The Jesus of religion is a quick tempered weakling.  The first Adam clearly is more powerful than the last Adam of religion.  When people quote Romans 5:15 incorrectly is when you say, “What then is the “much more” because it sounds like Jesus success is “much less” than the first Adam who seems to have done "much more"?  Your first Adam plunged ALL into death but your second Adam managed to plunge only some into life, so your "much more" is clearly coming from a defeated Jesus. 

I do not know about you but if majority of men are killed in a war then I can hardly declare that as a victory.  One problem with the hellfire view is that wickedness is stronger than God because God just cannot do anything about the sin, so He resorts instead to killing the sinner (annihilationism). So much for grace that super exceeds our sins.  I love when a religious person says, "Don't ever quit" because it is something their "god" always does on a person.  

I do not meet too many people who would not dispute that Christ gave His life a ransom for “all” (except for 5 point Calvinists) as stated in 1st Timothy 2:6, but they still want to limit the effectiveness of that ransom.  A ransom for all but only ransomed some makes no sense to me.  We keep reading our conditions back into it. Religion loves their potential Jesus who has His hands tied until you do something. 

I love how J.B. Phillips Bible reads Ephesians 1:7-10 that shares what the blood accomplished for all:

It is through the Son, at the cost of his own blood, that we are redeemed, freely forgiven through that full and generous grace which has overflowed into our lives and opened our eyes to the truth. For God had allowed us to know the secret of his plan, and it is this: he purposes in his sovereign will that ALL HUMAN HISTORY shall be consummated in Christ, that everything that exists in Heaven or earth shall find its perfection and fulfilment in him.

Look at the “all” in Colossians 1:20:

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

2nd Corinthians 5:19:

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the WORLD unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

God is not even imputing sins to the world but that does not stop religion from preaching their angry “god” who will get you for the sins He is not imputing.  Some are foolish enough to say that God is holding back his temper while you live in sin and unbelief but when you die is when you are going to get it good.  Really?  Maybe they should learn what, “not imputing” means.  Not imputing now or ever!  Jesus has taken away the sin of the world (John 1:29) and to say He reserved it for the next life is pure wickedness.  Was the taken away the sin of the world a potential taking away of sin?  Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world (1st John 2:2).  Was that a potential propitiation?  Be sure to learn what propitiation means and ask what that would now mean to the people of the whole world? 

Who were the ones cast into the lake of fire as I asked earlier?  Death and hades were cast in but we know that cannot be literal (death cannot be literally thrown) but it does not stop religion from claiming people are literally thrown into some literal lake of fire nonsense.  The beast was cast into the lake of fire that pictured the political and religious system and that too was not a literal casting.  The devil and the false prophet were cast into this lake but many do realize that they too were figurative.  

I simply see the lake of fire as a victorious gospel over everything.  I know some still cannot except that the lake of fire can be God.  Ask yourself, did some literal lake of fire defeat death or Jesus?  Did the lake of fire come to destroy the works of the devil or Jesus Christ?  Does the lake of fire hold the keys to death and hades or Jesus Christ?  Did the lake of fire swallow up death or Jesus Christ?  Do you see those things as defeated in Christ?  Do you also see the same connection to the lake of fire? 

Again, I see the lake of fire as being from God.  It is the presence of God Himself.  Look at 1st Corinthians 15:54:

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Is death swallowed up in the lake of fire or in what Christ accomplished?  Death is swallowed up in victory.  The lake of fire is victory!  It is not scary bad news.  It is part of the wonderful work of God on behalf of mankind.  Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess!

I see the lake of fire as victorious.  We read that the unbelieving shall have their place in the lake of fire but I also read that God concluded ALL in unbelief so that He might have mercy upon all.  The lake of fire is the death to the old and the beginning of all things new that chapter 21 begins sharing. We were dead in sin but were made alive in Christ.  All in Christ shall be made alive!

Am I saying that everyone is going to heaven when they die?  I do not know of one verse that says that we go to heaven at death.  I do know some new bible students erroneously think the "kingdom of heaven" is actually heaven, but no verse says that we go to heaven at death.  

Am I a universalist?  I read books by universalists and do not consider myself as one of them.  I do not believe in hell after death but that does not make me a universalist.  I view mankind as able to continue rejecting God as did the prodigal sons brother but not in some horrible place.  You will discover that the Father remained outside with the "other son" and that the Father did say, "You are always with me" but the "other son" refused to join the joyous party.  Condemnation in John 3 was defined as hiding from the light (refusal of truth).  Eternal life in John 17:3 was defined as "knowing Him."  I believe the Father always remains by those who refuse to enter/accept what is theirs, but I see that one can persist in ignorance of the truth.  I believe they have a new robe, sandals on the feet, a new ring, and that there is a fatted calf along with a big party but they simply refuse to go.  I do believe religious people will have the hardest time accepting such a loving God versus those who were wallowing in sin.  Jesus spoke of sinners who would enter the kingdom of heaven before the religious people.  I honestly do not know what religious people would make of such a God but I do get a glimpse by how they view the pure grace message. 

What else is cast into the lake of fire?  Look at Revelation 21:8:

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 

Notice that “unbelieving” is listed.  Religious people think that only unbelievers have their place in the lake of fire but if that is the only reason to be cast into the lake then why list everything else?  If believing is how one escapes the lake of fire then being fearful, abominable, and so on would not really matter.  This is why religion has to claim that such works proves you were unbelieving all along but those words are nowhere stated.  Read the verse and notice all who will have their place in this lake as unbelief is only one of them.  The unbelieving is not said to be the fearful that came first in the list.  It does not say, “The unbelieving are the fearful, the abominable, the murderers, and so on.” Stop rewriting verses to fit your religious beliefs. 

Are you the fearful?  I have 2 other verses that use the same Greek word for “fearful” in it:

26 And he saith unto them, Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith? Then he arose, and rebuked the winds and the sea; and there was a great calm.

That seems to describe most people when it comes to their own coming deathbed.  Are you “ye of little faith” that you are fearful?  We have a repeat in Mark 4:40:

40 And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?

The next one that I will not get into would be the unbelieving but if you believe the lake of fire is this horrendous punishment for the likes of unbelievers then make sure you are doing the believing correctly and that you are not fearful.  No room for error here!

Are you an idolater (covetousness applies here)?  Do you lie (white lies and embellishments count)?  Do you fornicate? 

Really quick, what again does God not impute?  What has Jesus taken away from the world?  God was reconciled to whom?  Jesus is the propitiation for whose sins?  Jesus is the Savior of how many?  Is Jesus only successful when we are?  Do you have to stop sinning before Jesus is victorious over sin?  Not at all.  

What if brimstone does indeed purify?  What would death then become?  Life.  Would not lies become truth?  Would perfect love cast out all fear?  Would it turn from “ye of little/no faith” to faith?  What if the second death was death to the first death?  What if the second death was death to the old you?  What if the second death was death to anything and everything that created hostility between us and God?  What if the lake of fire took those dead in sin and quickened them? 

I see the lake of fire as everything Jesus came to accomplish.  He defeated death as we read about Death riding a pale horse with hades following him that has met their ultimate defeat.  I read in 1stCorinthians 15 about His enemies being subdued that I also read in Revelation as well (same enemies that Jesus died for in Romans 5:8, as this death of death brought life, mercy, and grace to such people as the wrath (passion) of the redemptive Lamb pursued and conquered, as He is in all and over all things).  The “kings of the earth” that once hid and fought against Him are said to be bringing honor unto Him in Revelation 21:24. 

Jesus was victorious over everything (lies, hatred, murders, lust, fornication, idolatry, unbelief, abominations, etc.,) as we can put off the old man who died.  Grace truly super-abounds our sins!We can either bow now in gratitude or spend an eternity hoping to come to such a realization.  God never abandons!  Love never fails!  Mercy endures forever!  We can be the prodigal son and enjoy what is already ours or we can stand outside with the Father who is telling us, “Son, thou art ever with me, and all that I have is thine” (Luke 15:31) but remain outside and never enjoying what is ours.

Look at Revelation 21:27:

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

The above again is the same as verse 8 where such will have their part in the lake of fire.  Those that defile will not enter in.  Let me quickly point out a couple other times after Calvary what was said about those who defile.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.  Acts 10:15.

But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common. Acts 11:9.

The word "common" is the same Greek word for "defileth" in Revelation 21:27.  The above verses were part of a vision to Peter to call no man unclean because God has cleansed them.  If the lake of fire does indeed purify then can we conclude that the defiled are those "God hath cleansed"?  Can the lake of fire being anything but Him?  I asked if Jesus defeated death or did the lake of fire.  I asked if Jesus destroyed the works of the devil or the lake of fire.  I was trying to get you to see the connection.  I now ask, is Jesus Christ or the lake of fire makes the defiled cleaned?  Look at Hebrews 9:13:

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The unclean is the same Greek word "defileth" in Revelation 21:27.  I know religion has programmed the thinking of people to say, "If you do not receive Christ in this life is to suffer the full weight of God's wrath in the next life for your sins" that is completely whipped up out of nowhere.  God is imputing sins to NOBODY.  Jesus has taken away the sin of the world.  It is IMPOSSIBLE to die and have your sins somehow imputed to you.  If you die to only have your sins imputed to you in the next life implies God kept a tally on them all along and lied to us.  What defiled us is to know that God  has indeed cleansed us.  We have been perfected forever.  We have been made holy once for all.  The blood of bulls and goats could not take away sin but Jesus Christ did. 

The lake of fire is God Himself as it was humanity that passes through this God of love.  His love fails not.  His mercy is endless.  His grace super-abounds any sin you commit now and always!  Grace does not super abound only the believers sins as religion would like for you to believe but for everyone.   Jesus is “much more” in comparison to Adam that plunged this human race into death.  Do you believe in a "much more" Jesus or are still teaching a "much more" Adam?  Jesus is the undoing of Adam!  The old you has died and been buried in a tomb over 2000 years ago.  You are not worthless or trash in the eyes of God.  You are a coin that never lost its value.  Awake from your religious slumber.  Get rid of religion! 

A poem I do enjoy:

Can you really imagine a God of love….
Sitting in heaven, relaxing above…..
And, deciding, one day….. to make up a place….
Void of His love and His mercy and grace?!?
Can you really believe it?!?! That, Our best friend…..
Could make up a torture that never would end…
Only a Father who’d gone insane……
Could punish His children in endless pain!!!
Religionists carefully formed a dark plan…
In order to scare and control every man…
A story, quite gory..to keep us in line….
I guess they forgot..we can still use our mind!
We cannot be fooled by their demonic spirit…
Our father is speaking..and, YES! We can hear it!
He’s pouring out His revelation of LOVE…..
Where nothing below….. and nothing above…..
Could ever, no NEVER, not once separate us….
His Nature is LOVE… there’s no way He could hate us…
Or banish us…. torture or cook us forever….
His LOVE and his mercy won’t fail us… NOT EVER!!!

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I posted a new website but it had a couple of issues.  First, the email address was not working.  2nd, people were unable to view the blog without being redirected to another page.  Those issues were finally resolved.  Please email me if you encounter any issues that I might have overlooked. 

Please note that all new blogs will be posted there.  There will be no more blogs posted here except when I create my Facebook page soon.

It will be a few weeks before all blogs are transferred over.  Please know that my new site is not showing all the blogs I had posted for some reason.  Be sure to look at the TAGS as you might have to click one to find some of the blogs not advertised.  I hope to have that fixed soon too.

If you are in need of help with assurance of salvation then feel free to email me.  Be sure to visit the counseling page at my new website.  My email is NOT open to those wishing to be argumentative.  If you are convinced of your religion then share it to those who want to hear it.  My email is open to those who are open minded and not religiously closed minded.  I am here to help not argue.  Please see my blog:

Why would I want your religion?

Thank you!

http://pureunadulteratedgrace.net/




Grace or Law Oriented?

Facebook

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I just started a facebook page yesterday.  I do not know how to create a professional looking FB page but will have a friend look into improving it when he has time.  I plan on posting devotionals and things I have blogged but shorter in length.

https://www.facebook.com/PureUnadulteratedGrace
                                
                                  also

 https://www.facebook.com/puregracebeliever


Post at Facebook

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Below is the following I posted today at my new Facebook page.  Come join me there!

SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD

Galatians 5:19-21 has terrorized many into believing their salvation can be lost. The book was written to the "foolish" Galatians who needed to see the futility of trying to keep the Law.

Paul was not talking to those diving into sins but those trying to keep the Law. The they which "DO" such things (listed in 5:19-21) are the same ones Paul talks about in Galatians 3:10 who do not continue in the Law to "DO" them:

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to DO them.

Those who do not "continue...to DO" what was written in the Law are the very people listed in 5:19-21 who were DOING what the Law says DON'T. The sins listed are describing the ones who do not continue in what the Law says.

Paul also said this to the Galatians:

For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to DO the whole law.
Each chapter addressed the Law and the foolish Galatians who sought to put themselves back under bondage.

Chapter 5 began with those who sought to put themselves back under the yoke of bondage. These are the ones who fell from Grace into Law.

Let me make this very clear, Grace is for those who "do" such things listed in Galatians 5:19-21 but not for those who are under the Law that was abolished. I know religious people will shout, "License to sin!" but the message is that Grace is for sinners! Galatians 5:19-21 did not describe the failure to walk in Grace but the failure to walk after the Law.

To keep the Law is to hear what the Law says (see Galatians 4:18, 21)...NO INHERITANCE! The inheritance comes by promise (Gal. 4:18) and not by performance!

What about "shall not inherit the kingdom of God"?

Paul said that those who "DO" such things shall not inherit. He was telling them what would be the result if the Law could bring an inheritance. If the Law could bring an inheritance then those who do not continue in them "TO DO" will not inherit.

Paul repeatedly proved throughout the book of Galatians the foolishness and futility to live by the Law. Why? Look at the reason Paul gave in Galatians:

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

There will be no inheritance by the Law period. The Law was not the faith to be revealed. The inheritance is by the faith that has come and not by the works of the Law. You can refrain the best you can from the sins listed but you still would not inherit by your refraining or reformations. To fail in one point is to be guilty of all!
God concluded ALL in sin and unbelief, so nobody would be excluded from the list of Galatians 5:19-21 for ALL have sinned.

Know this, we have died to sin and we have died to the Law, so cast out the bondwoman and her son!
Inheritance does not come by behavior modification because you would be required to keep the Law perfectly as Paul. Those who tell you that they "keep" the Law are liars and Paul stated that in Galatians 6:13:
For NEITHER they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.

Paul argues that not only does the inheritance NOT come by the Law but that not even they (not just you Galatians have failed but even those) who are of the circumcision.

Paul from beginning to end was telling them the futility of keeping the Law. It was never intended to bring an inheritance. Grace is for those that "do such things" as Grace meets you right where you are! Law is for those who can not do such things perfectly. Paul said that the "doers of the Law" would be justified in Romans 2:13 before he concluded in chapter 3 that NONE are righteous. What Paul was saying, "There are NO DOERS of the Law" who "keeps" it. All have sinned, so justification/inheritance can NEVER come by the Law. God is not pleased with your 99.99%. For by the Law is the KNOWLEDGE of sin and not the knowledge of great behavior. Why live under it? The law is the strength of sin. The Law was never intended to justify a person or bring an inheritance.

It is not, Grace is for those who do their best to avoid such things listed (nowhere stated). Also, the Law is not for those who continue to do their best to refrain from such things listed either. Either it is all of grace or it is all of Law, as there is no middle road here.

Anyone who tells you that they do not "do" the sins listed in Galatians 5:19-21 is when you ask them, "What about the 'such like sins" that Paul included?" Don't be fooled by religion who tells you that Galatians 5:19-21 is how one can know they are saved, as no such words are stated anywhere in Galatians. Instead of being fooled is to know they reveal themselves to be the liars and the false teachers among the brethren.

If you are trying to experience an inheritance by keeping the law through your performance then you are wasting your time as your efforts will ALL be in vain.

I'm thankful that the faith has come and the Law system of the old covenant is no more. Grace has freed us from its obligation. Grace is for those who "do such things."

 https://www.facebook.com/puregracebeliever

1st Corinthians 15:2 Did you believe in vain? Is it even possible?

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Below was the post I left today at Facebook.  Remember, this blog will be closing soon, as many of my blogs will be transferring over to my new site.  Join me on Facebook and be sure to visit my new website.  I should have a mailing list soon at my new website.  The links to my Facebook and website is provided at the bottom of this blog.

By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. (1st Corinthians 15:2)

Let's breakdown "if ye keep in memory" and "believed in vain."

The words, "If ye keep in memory what I preached to you" points to the Corinthians that Paul assumed were still holding on to gospel concerning the resurrection.

Wuest translated "if ye keep in memory what I preached to you" this way:

...assuming that you are holding it fast”

The gospel by which ye ARE saved. The "if" is an assumption they still believed his message as it was not some condition to remain saved. It is by which ye ARE saved is not stressing a possibility here. Paul assumed that they still believed this glorious message.

If the people did not still believe this message (the resurrection in context) would mean that believing was to no purpose (vain). Vain simply means "to no purpose." What was the point of your believing if you do not believe the resurrection of the dead was the message. If the resurrection does not happen then believing would be entirely useless as Paul goes on to give the reasons why.

The words, "Unless ye believed in vain" pointed to those who said there was no resurrection of the dead. Paul said in verses 12-13:

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen

Religion has used 1st Cor. 15:2 to teach that you can only be saved by continual believing or that continual believing proves you are saved. Both are pure nonsense.

All Paul was explaining here to the Corinthians were the ramifications of what it would mean if the Savior had not risen. He at no time in the context shared any ramifications if one were to stop believing.

The words "in vain" of verse 2 repeated again in the same chapter concerning the subject of resurrection. Paul shares the ramifications if the resurrection were not true. Verses 14, 17, and 18:

And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

Paul was not preaching what would happen if they stopped believing but what would be the result if the resurrection never happened. Preaching and faith would be vain. Those who have died have perished (complete death, no consciousness, no return, from dust you came and to dust you return).

To stop believing the resurrection does not affect the "saved" because the word "saved" was the guaranteed result of the death, burial, and resurrection (gospel) and not the believing. If the resurrection never happened then there is no such thing as being saved from the effects of sin which was death.

One's faith only becomes vain "if" the resurrection never happened, and not "if" they stopped believing. The resurrection is never vain if one stops believing but your believing is vain if the resurrection never happened.
If the resurrection never happened then you and I better enjoy life while we have it because when death comes is when our memories will all cease. If the resurrection never happened then all the faith in the world would be vain and pointless. We would be "as others having no hope (no expectation of a resurrection from the dead)" that Paul mentioned in 1st Thessalonians 4:13.

Do you believe the resurrection? If so, Paul was not talking to you. You would be the ones Paul assumed was keeping the truth of the gospel.

Are you a professing believer who denies the resurrection? If so, then you need to consider the ramifications if such a thing were true but praise the Father, it is not!

1st Corinthians 15:2 was not a death threat to those who stopped believing. It was pointing out the foolishness of not believing the resurrection.

You could not have believed "to no purpose" (vain) because the resurrection happened!!

My facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/puregracebeliever

My website:

http://pureunadulteratedgrace.net/

Devotional

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A short devotional I posted at my Facebook page:

I believe a person lost is simply one who does not recognize his or her own surroundings. A lost person is one who refuses to accept such a loving message concerning them as they erroneously opt for the "I'm unworthy" talk. They opt for the sin consciousness. They opt for the performance for acceptance mindset.

If a person is lost means they have a home. If a person is lost implies they belong to someone who dearly loves them.

I believe the lost are pursued until found. I believe they are pursued until they are brought to tears of joy of beholding the face of their true Father. They come to realize that they once embraced the father of lies who was never their father but they were deceived by his lies. 

I believe the lost comes to discover that He is the God AND Father of ALL (Eph. 4:6). They were birthed by Him. They were birthed by loving hands. No matter what defects they believe they may have is to know that they are fearfully and wonderfully made.

I believe the lost beholds the Father in whom is no fear but only love. The father of lies instilled fear in them but the Father of all grace, love, and truth has removed all fear, as perfect love (our Father) casts out fear. Fear has torment and no torment exists in our Father.

We are His adored children. We are the praise of His glory! We are loved beyond measure because His love is immeasurable. We bathe in His love. We can never be separated from His love. His love grips us tight. We wake up in His love, walk in it all day, and we go to bed with it. His love is as close as the air in our lungs. At no time do we need to question His love for He IS love!

Praise our Father and our loving Savior who loved us and died for us. To behold the image, the glory of Jesus Christ is to behold our likeness (2nd Cor. 3:18). How beautiful we truly are!

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New Devotional on Facebook

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People only struggle to believe in a loving and accepting God when their perception of "god" is violent, vindictive, and impatient.

People struggle when their "god" demands A's and scolds for B's on the performance report card.  People only struggle to believe when their "god" keeps record of sins.  People only struggle to believe when they believe they are below the so-called standard their "god" expects.  They often make vows and double their efforts in order to get a smile of approval from their "god." 

How can one love a "god" that terrorizes the conscience?  How can anyone love a "god" that demands love or will reject or destroy them for failing to do so?  How can anyone love a "god" who leaves a list of daily chores that better be done or else?  Who can love a "god" who only finds faults?  Who can love a "god" that leaves a person guessing whether they are forgiven, loved, and accepted?

Perfect love casts out fear so how can it be God they believe in when they live in uncertainty, as to His love for them?  If Christ died when we were enemies then how could God ever withhold love now?  Fear has torment but God is perfect love.  It is not a loving God that brings torment but only an angry performance oriented "god." 

People who struggle with assurance will say with utmost confidence that God answers prayer but will lose that confidence when asked, "Does God hear/answer your prayers?."  They question whether their prayers make it beyond the ceiling.  They wonder if God even cares enough to answer the "likes" of them.  They often pray, "God?  Where are you?  Did I do something wrong?"

These tormented souls believe God is more willing to curse than bless.  If they were to challenge God by praying, "God, I believe you are powerless to give a disease so give it a try if you got the guts and power to do it" is when they would fear such a prayer believing that God would answer it.  However, when they pray for good things is when God has better things to do.  They demonstrate confident expectation that God would give them a disease if they asked versus good things.  Is this the God of the bible?  Is this a God of love?  Is there any wonder they lack assurance? 

Do you lack assurance?  I found beholding the love of God brings freedom from the religious "god" of insecurity.  God is love but insecure people seek to limit it or place conditions on it.  The reason they struggle to believe God loves and accepts them is because of all the veils of conditions and limitations they have placed on His love.

Pray and ask the Father to reveal "what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."  

Be filled with the "fullness of God" how?  By abstaining and struggling or by knowing the love of Christ which passes knowledge?  Insecurity prefers the former as I once did but the answer is found in the latter.

Watch yourself grow from love to love to love to love tolove.  The more you behold His unchanging love that you can never be separated from will transform you.  A relationship is enjoyed only through love and not some impatient and demanding performance centered and fault finding jerk.  Get rid of "god" and embrace the God of all grace who has embraced you! 

Join me there:

https://www.facebook.com/puregracebeliever

Remember, this blog will be closing.  Below is my new website.  I will have a mailing list soon that will keep you posted.

 http://pureunadulteratedgrace.net/



Devotional

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If God did not forsake Jesus (God was "IN" Christ reconciling the world to Himself--2nd Cor. 5:19) who we read "became sin for us" then He will never leave us or forsake us no matter how sinful a person falsely perceives themselves to be. He "so" loved us and died for us when we "were" enemies, and now we can shout, "Who is he that condemns? Who shall separate us from His love?" Jesus Christ is what God believes about us! As He is, so are we in the world! Behold the Lamb of God which takes away the sin of the world! What are we to fear? The answer is never God, for God is love and there is no fear in love. Behold that perfect love that knows and adores you as His very own. You are His prized possession!

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How I overcame doubts...Posted at Facebook

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"Dave, what was it that gave you full assurance of your salvation?"

It was not a date I had written in my bible. It was not some aisle I had walked. It was not a specific sin I quit. It was not some prayer I made. It was not from behavioral modification.

Not one of those things ever gave me assurance. In fact, the harder I tried to believe the less I felt myself believing. The harder I tried to believe the greater the struggle to believe. Let me reword Romans 7:19 about the struggle:

For the "believing" that I would I do not: but the "unbelieving" which I would not, that I do.

Our unbelief is centered in one thing...insecurity. We might say that it is a focus upon self, sin, and performance and all of those are true. However, you can tell a person to get their eyes off of self, sin, and performance but they will still see "believing" as a prerequisite. They will still be trying to do this thing called believing and will wonder, "Did I believe enough? Did I believe the right way?" I even knew that I was not to focus upon myself and tried to not view self, sin, and my performance but "believing" never came.  WHY??? Because I still was "trying" to do things (stop viewing self, performance, and sin) to make believing magically appear in my heart.

What freed me was the love of God. The more I beheld the love of God the more security I found in Him. Perfect love casts out fear. Fear is insecurity. I have never met a person I counseled that lacked assurance and was not simultaneously insecure about God's love and acceptance. The most common email I receive from people is, "I just cannot believe that God loves me and accepts me when I do these things."

A person viewing their sins obscures the love of God. A person who focuses on sin obscures the love of God. A person who focuses on performance obscures the love of God. The last lesson I had to learn was, the person who focuses on their believing obscures the love of God. I was seeing the love of God but my focus upon, "I have to believe" created a hurdle that I was unable to jump over.

I obscured the love of God because I thought my believing would make God forgive me, show me His love, and stop being so angry.

I did everything to make myself believe. I would read more scripture, join ministries, and memorize verses. I would pray more and pass out gospel tracts but none of those things worked. I would listen to Christian music and would sing hymns in my heart but the OK feelings would quickly flee.

When I discovered that beholding the immeasurable love of God was where insecurities would flee is when I stopped worrying about my believing, sins, self, and performance. I accepted the little I was able to see of His love and thanked God for it. The love I beheld grew, grew, and grew, and my confidence grew, grew, and grew with what I beheld.

Instead of pushing away the love God was revealing to me was to accept it. It was not easy at first. Ever see a dog that was abused? You call him to come to you and he might take 2 steps in your direction before retreating, but eventually they get enough courage to reach the tip of your hand. Over the course of weeks/months, the dog gains your trust and begins to enjoy your love and you both enjoy a wonderful relationship. Sometimes healing takes a while but eventually, the abuse you suffered becomes a thing of the past.

Pushing God's love away is simply conditions we place upon it. The more you restrict God's love to your believing, abstaining, and obedience the greater the insecurity you experience.  The more you allow God to show you His love the more your insecurities flee. His love just keeps on expanding that was foreign to my growth experience in fundamentalism.

My growth in fundamentalism was determined by how much knowledge I gained in Bible doctrines, and how many sins I could resist for a certain number of days in a row.

I now live under the reality that I am LOVED! My conscience might say, "Dave you sinned!" and I respond, "God soooo loves me!" I am special to Him. My image is never determined in my performance but is found in Christ. I am what God believed about Jesus Christ. For God to see me as muck would be to see His Son as muck. I am loved as much as the Father loved His Son. Where could you ever find greater security than that?  The God of all creation is my Father and my best friend! 

If at any time I feel fearful is when I realize that God had no part of what caused me to fear. God is love and perfect love casts out all fear. Fear has torment and there is no torment in love for God is love. I no longer have the insecurity of, "Oh no! Am I truly believing? Did I believe enough?" No, it is, "God is love and nothing can separate me from His love" and that is what I believe. It remains true whether I believe it or not. I am bathed and sheltered under His love forever!
 

Some thoughts on Annihilationism

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I once held to the teachings of annihilationism.  I first believed in a literal hellfire after death but then became a believer in annihilationism after reading a book by Edward William Fudge titled, 'The Fire That Consumes.'  I later had problems with the beliefs of annihilationism because I felt I still was reading into verses words not stated.

I was preparing a blog on this subject but when I reached my 28th page on Microsoft Word was when I decided to stop because I only scratched the surface.  I decided now to make only a few points in comparison to what I had tried to write concerning my former beliefs as this will be more for the undecided than those convinced of its teachings. 

What you are about to read will appear that I am defending Universalism rather than refuting annihilationism.  To read this blog as a defense of Universalism will cause some (hellfire lovers or those taught to be closed minded when they hear certain words) to miss out on what I am actually trying to get across here.  This blog is to show that there will be a universal resurrection and not a resurrection unto extinction.  People will come up with such an opinion of me due to the fact that I do not believe in an after death Gehenna as no verse speaks of an after death Gehenna.  To them, since I do not believe in a literal hellfire torture in some after death underworld and do not believe in annihilationism then I must be promoting Universalism.  I admit that my beliefs are very universalistic and will obviously show in this blog but I never limit myself to a certain "ism" (Universal-ism...Calvin-ism...Arminian-ism...Lutheran-ism...Catholic-ism, Supralapsarian-ism, and so on) being taught today.  This is why people have a hard time boxing me into a specific man-made theological system.  If one does box me into a specific "ism" is when they will discover that my beliefs are inconsistent to everything that "ism" promotes.  I do not limit myself. 

Again, this blog is to show that there will be a universal resurrection and not a resurrection unto annihilation.  One does not have to agree with everything I say here but do know that there will be a universal resurrection as "all" will be made alive.  You might be thinking "alive where?" but the point of this blog is that they will be made "alive" and not annihilated, so do not miss the forest for the trees.  Again, this blog is simply for the undecided.

Look at 2nd Corinthians 5:14:

14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

Do you believe Christ died for all?  If so, do you believe the same “all” are dead?  If no, then you have to twist the above verse.  The above is universal where "all" have died in that death died for all."If one died for all" (He did)  then "were ALL dead."

No verse says that you become dead when you believe.  Many read Romans 6 as applying to believers only about being “baptized into His death.”  Many Baptists seek to twist Romans 6 to refer to water baptism in a book that contains no water.  2nd Corinthians 5:14 are us baptized into His death.  Romans 6:5 reads:

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection

Verse 5 is identical teaching to 2nd Corinthians 5:14-15.  Now religion will focus on the word “if” and will tell you that it is conditional, but they forget 2nd Corinthians 5:14, “IF one died for all” that one can clearly see was not a conditional if.  People fail to see how Paul often used the word “if” not to stress a condition but a reality.  If Christ did die for all then the results is that we all have died.  It is clear that “all” have been planted together in the likeness of His death” because to deny that is to deny 2nd Corinthians 5:14.  Notice that the same all will be in the “likeness of His resurrection.” 

Paul clearly said that “if one died for all, then were ALL dead.”  Now look at 2ndTimothy 2:11:

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him 

Again, the word “if” is not a conditional statement as 2nd Corinthians 5:14 proved that.  Who died with Him?  All.  Who are those that shall live with Him?  The “all” who died in Him. The living with Him does not imply reigning or not being subdued as other scriptures talk about.  I am not here to talk about that but only that all will be made alive in Christ.  We all share in the benefits of His death and resurrection. 

Look at 1st Corinthians 15:22

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Religion attempts to change the word order to, “all in Adam die, all in Christ made alive” but the verse does not say that.  Religion wants you to think that you have to “get” (works mentality) into Christ and then you shall be made alive.  No, “in Adam all die, in Christ the same all are made alive.”  You were dead in trespasses and sins but you were quickened according to Ephesians 2. 

Did you do any works to get "in Adam"?  Did you believe to get "in Adam"?  NO!  You are twisting and reading into the above verse to say, "We did not get into Adam by our freewill/choice, but we get into Christ by our freewill/choice."  People claim you must "get into Christ" because God will not violate your freewill but I never hear those same people complain that we "all" are in Adam (condemned, die) apart from our freewill.  Religion does not object to the doom and gloom upon all of the first Adam apart from our choice but hates the obviously second half of the verse that Christ undid what the first Adam had done to the entire human race apart from choice.  Religion makes the first half of the verse as unconditionally applying to all mankind but conditions the second half of the verse that reads identical to the verse half of the verse as conditioned upon choice.  Whose playing games now? 

Religion attempts (especially annihilationists) to make immortality conditioned upon believing rather the result of the resurrection.  Death is the only thing said to be destroyed in 1st Corinthians 15:26 and never those "made alive" including the enemies "subdued" (verse 28).  However, it clearly says that “all will be made alive.”  The "all" made alive is clearly putting on the immortality.  In Adam all die, but in Christ all are made alive (immortality).  Look at 1stCorinthians 15:45:

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living SOUL; the last Adam was made a quickening SPIRIT.

The above verse is important because annihilationists love to argue, “wages of sin is death…the SOUL that sins shall die” as they argue for extinction of unbelievers.  Those verses they quote is exactly what Paul was saying, “In Adam ALL die.”  The SOUL that sins shall die according to Ezekiel as that is the Adam who was made a living SOUL, as we die in him.  Adam the living "soul" we all die, but in Christ the quickening spirit we all live.  Immortality is to all. 

Nowhere does scripture state that believing is how our sin wages get paid.  Religion makes you believe that Jesus hands you a blank check and all you need to do is sign your name and the check is now yours to enjoy.  People fail to see that the name on the check is “ALL” as it was never a blank check.
Comparing 1st Corinthians 15:22 with verse 45 makes it clear that one will made alive and not fried or annihilated.  We were dead in sin but we were quickened in Christ.  The soul that sins shall die and Adam being the living soul that we are all a part of die, but Christ who is the quickening spirit brings life to the same all. 

The "second death" is something that scares many believers.  Nowhere do we read anywhere of a second death except in Revelation.  People read Revelation as a future literal event in a book full of symbols and figurative language.  I have heard a Baptist pastor claim that he had a near death experience and saw the streets of gold.  Really?  The gold streets were figurative and it also was a city described here on planet earth and not some heaven out yonder.  

I believe the new heavens and the new earth were just as figurative as was everything else seen in it.  It was no different than any other vision John had that was full of symbols.  It is only religion who says, "OK, this part is literal...this part figurative...this part symbolic."  This is why nobody agrees on what they read in Revelation.

Try reading Revelation as a revealing of the gospel of grace instead of a full blown nuclear war. Instead of seeing everything as literal is to try to see it as Christ and the gospel as victorious in the end.

People read the “wrath of the Lamb” in Revelation 6 and assume a very angry Lamb literally tormenting people with physical pain.  Wrath is simply an intense passion or emotion.  Remember, God told us to put off our wrath because it was described as a sin of the flesh.  God's wrath is not our wrath but we tend to picture God's wrath as an intense temper tantrum that goes beyond ours.  

The Lamb is ONLY associated with redemption and not terror and punishment.  Look up all the references to Lamb and notice how Religion changes the Lamb of Revelation 6 from an image of a gentle Lamb into a vicious beast on the attack. 

I do not read Revelation literally at all.  I rarely if ever read the Book of Revelation.  If John did not understand everything he was seeing then nothing today will make the book completely clear.  What I do see when reading Revelation is quite a colorful story of what the gospel accomplished.  I will be brief as possible hoping not to confuse anyone. 

The wrath of the Lamb is a picture of His passion toward others.  Those “kings of the earth” and others trying to hide from this Lamb where you can read how they they cried out for the mountains to fall upon them was imagery to me of darkness seeking to hide from the light that we read about in John 3.  The light came but darkness comprehended it not. Men hide from the light lest their deeds be exposed.  

This was not a real story unless you believe a literal lamb was climbing up a mountain side seeking to hurt people.  Look for a message in it about the pursuing Lamb of redemption who shed His blood for their sins.  Revelation does repeat more than once, "The Lamb slain." 

See my video on the Loving Wrath of God:





I see the “kings of the earth” hiding in Revelation 6.  I see the same “kings of the earth” making war in chapter 19.  I see the same “kings of the earth” in chapter 21:24 bringing “honor and glory” into the city that was only pictured upon planet earth.  Religion wants to see only a literal war but I see enemies who were previously fighting now subdued.  I see a story about Death riding a horse and the Beast who was figurative being brought down by the gospel.  I see death defeated that was the long reigning champion due to sin (wages of sin is death).  I see enemies subdued.  Paul said in 1stCorinthians 15 that death would be destroyed but enemies “subdued.”  Only annihilationists see “subdued” as destroyed from existence that simply amazes me.  They were "made alive" again to be put to death again??? 

We read about the figurative lake of fire that is called the “second death.”  I call it figurative because most things thrown into it are figurative (no literal beast, no literal false prophet with 2 horns, no literal death and hades cast into it).  

What is the second death?  Annihilationists claim that it is when one is resurrected but dies again that makes no sense.  I find it strange that the second death is made to be literal by annihilationists inside book full of symbolic/figurative language.  I find no mention of two deaths anywhere taught in the OT.  I never found it taught in any of the teachings of Paul or in the teachings of Jesus as to this dying twice.  Annihilationists focus on "perish" and "destruction" to refer somehow to one being forever annihilated but those words always precede the resurrection to people on planet earth and are never said to be what they will experience in the resurrection.  None are raised to extinction.  Condemnation is not defined as extinction.  Destruction was never defined as the second death.  Clearly those who have "perished" (died) will be raised. 

Again, I find no mention of two deaths anyone in the OT.  I thought the wages of sin was death.  Do sin wages need to be paid twice now?  God warned Adam that if he eat of the fruit then dust he shall return but not twice.  One verse that religion twists is Hebrews 9:27 that clearly says, “And as it is appointed unto men ONCEto die, but after this the judgment.”  When I believed annihilationism was for me to get around the above verse by arguing Hebrews 6:4 about those “once” enlightened claiming that one can be enlightened more than once, so death can be more than once too.  Nice try!  However, Hebrews 9:27 is quite clear, “die and then judgment” and not “die and then judgment and die again.”  It clearly shows that what follows death is not death.  The judgment of Hebrews 9:27 was not the white throne judgment.  See my video on Hebrews 9:27:




Whenever I see death in scripture in a figurative or spiritual sense is when I go looking for something “new” to follow.  Example would be that our old man was crucified and now we have a new man.  Those who died in Christ (the all) are those that are said to have become a new creation in 2nd Corinthians 5:17.  Only religion reads the new creatures as those who believed but that robs the word “therefore” in verse 17 pointing back to verse 14.  Religion zeroes in on the word “if” of verse 17 as a condition when clearly it was not a condition from verse 14 on.  "If one died for all" is clearly not an "iffy" statement.  Christ did die for all. 

I read the “second death” in Revelation 20 that I would assume the “kings of the earth” in chapter 19 were tossed into but the same “kings of the earth” are read about in chapter 21:24 as bringing honor and glory into the city.  I had one man tried claiming that the "kings of the earth" of chapter 19 were not the same "kings of the earth" of chapter 21???  This means the "kings of the earth" of chapter 6 were not the same "kings of the earth" of chapter 19, and were not the same "kings of the earth" of chapter 21???   The "kings of the earth" are mentioned 9 times in Revelation but this man said they were not the same??  Imagine me writing a letter mentioning the name Fred Johnson 9 times inside that letter but some else comes along and claims that a different Fred Johnson was implied in each paragraph.  I think we would get confused. 

I am seeing a victorious gospel and not some literal event taking place in the future where a real Jerusalem city comes down.  If you want to believe it is all literal then be sure to make every reference in Revelation as literal and you will see how silly your beliefs will look. 

We have death in chapter 20 but chapter 21 begins with:

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Most Baptists and others I know of do not believe they will be resurrected to go to the "New Jerusalem" that is described on planet earth in Revelation 21.  How can "nations of the saved" go in and out if this city if it was not on planet earth (Nations exist on earth)?  It is clearly called the New Earth.  Are we talking about a literal new earth where God will explode this one and start over?  Can this not be figurative to the world we might now be a part of in the new covenant?  We have got to start thinking outside the religious box. 

Will there literally be a new heaven and a new earth or is this a colorful description of the victory of the gospel?  Could not the heaven and the earth before referring to the old covenant being passed away and the new ushered in?  2nd Peter 3:10 reads:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

If you study the word "elements" is to see that it was tied to the Law and not planet earth (soil, tree, etc.)  Being a literalist can cause some serious problems.  I used to view 2nd Peter 3:10 as a nuclear war.  It is only to follow the destruction of the "elements" that we read in 2nd Peter 3:

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Be very careful being a "religious" literalist because you will see this new heaven and new earth through the eyes of performance oriented religion.  

No more death in Revelation 21 and that is what Paul said more than once but Paul never preached a resurrection to be annihilated as annihilationists read into verses.  I do not believe that "hades" still exists because the moment we die now is to be caught up with those who were held captive in hades before Christ.  Death has no hold on us.  To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.  That would be another blog but wanted to make a quick point.

In Christ, all shall be made alive (no more death).  Death is said to be destroyed, and the second death in my opinion is death to the first death and not a universal annihilationism.  The only annihilationism I believe in is that the “old man” and the "old system" was crucified, buried, and old covenant is no more as such things are to never be resurrected again. See my blog on the elements burned with a fervent heat:




I see “former things passed away” and “I make all things new” in Revelation 21 to be nothing new to Paul who said that we are “new creatures in Christ” and that “old things have passed away and behold all things have become new.”  

Death in scripture is also seen as separation and not annihilationism.  In Revelation 21 and 22 is to see those "outside" the gates of the city that implies a separation or an exclusion but not annihilationism.  We have to be careful how we define words inside a book filled with figurative language and symbols. 

I see Revelation as the triumph of Christ.  I see that in Paul's writings in Colossians 1:20:

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL  things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

I do not believe Jesus annihilates "all things" that oppose Him to have "all things" that do not oppose Him reconciled.  All things in earth and heaven reconciled.  All things have become new.  We are so busy trying to make Revelation literal that we miss out. 

I see Revelation showing absolute victory as Paul uttered that in 1st Corinthians 15 where all things we be put under His feet (submission and not annihilationism).  I see this language in Colossians 2:15:

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

If Calvary did not take care of sin then wiping people will not either as the OT proved that.  I believe Jesus is the "Savior of the world."  I believe that Jesus came to save lives and not destroy them as clearly stated in Luke 9.  I believe Jesus was the Lamb that had taken away the sin of the world.  I believe Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.  I believe God is reconciled to the world.  I believe God is not imputing sin unto the world.  I believe Jesus died for enemies according to Romans 5.  I believe love endures all things.  I believe love fails not.  I believe mercy endures always.  Annihilationism is a strange fit to all of that.  

I do not read Revelation with the eyes of gloom and doom.  I believe much of the things shared are past.  Jesus told them that He would come quickly.  Only religion turns Jesus into an uneducated person by making us think that “I come quickly” refers to 2000+ years.  This also happens when people make something a literal event that must be seen with eyes and refuse to see it any other way.  You can keep preaching, "Jesus is coming soon" or "quickly" but you will be uttering what religion has been uttering for such a long time now.  All the date settings for Jesus return comes and goes.  I guarantee you that you will not see anything in your lifetime.  We love sensationalism as boring religion needs some spice to it, so gloom and doom and floating off to heaven is the message people love to hear because their religion now seems to have purpose.

Religion attempts to say that “a 1000 years is but as a day” but that is from God’s perspective and not ours.  From our perspective a 1000 years is not quick at all and it certainly is not a day to us.  Jesus was telling people in a language they could understand, “I come quickly.”  To argue that Jesus meant, "A 1000 years are but as a day" was what He meant when He said, "I come quickly" to finite people is silly.  I do not tell my wife, “I am going to the store to buy some milk and will be home soon” and then return 15 years later with the milk.  I doubt my wife would say to me after 15 years, “Wow!  That was quick!” 

We read Revelation and try to make everything literal while missing out on the message of the victorious gospel.  Keep that in mind when you read it.  

Another thing about annihilationism is that they argue the OT and the removal of enemies as permanent extinction rather than their present removal from the land.  What they argue makes no room for a future resurrection if they are now extinct.  Your country can bomb its enemies and they would be considered no more but that does not mean extinction from the spiritual side of it. 

Philippians 2:9-11 reads:

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every kneeshould bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 
Annihilationists will read the parallel verse in Isaiah 45:23-24:

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

Ashamed does not mean annihilated.  To try to prove it means annihilated is when the annihilationist will argue Isaiah 41:11:

11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.

First of all, Paul was not arguing this or thinking this in Philippians 2:9-11 as only one can insert such an idea.  This is not talking about a worldwide annihilationism but rather their enemies who were the Babylonians.  Sorry, the Babylonians today will not be ashamed or confounded by your country.  

The being ashamed had nothing to do with being annihilated but rather with their "conscious" defeat.  It can be as an army fully defeated and those behind the attacks are ashamed and confounded.  

Everything will come to nothing.  This has nothing to do with a resurrection where they will die again nonsense of annihilationism.  There is no second death in the OT.  Isaiah 41:11 was not saying, “First they will confess…then they will be ashamed…then they will be as nothing…and then they will die.”   

Their being “confounded” had nothing to do with being annihilated by God but rather their own folly had fallen back upon them.  

One thing we have to remember is that Isaiah 45 is not speaking of endless extinction of enemies in general.  The chapter ends with:

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

If the one group were permanently annihilated then did Israel's history prove that "all the seed of Israel be justified" permanently?  If the one group were made permanently ashamed and confounded then will the glory be a permanent result to "all the seed of Israel"?  No, they simply were rejoicing in "their" day, as they were boasting in the Lord.  Israel in Romans 11 was blinded, hardened, given a spirit of slumber, and uprooted.  I only see their present day enemies removed.  

When you read in the OT about the wicked "no more" or that they "shall not be" is to ask, "Where shall they not be?"  The answer is here on planet earth.  If they go to nothingness then what is this resurrection of the dead?  Just a bunch of religious word games.  

The words "cut off" in the OT do not mean annihilationism either because Jesus was said to be "cut off" in Daniel 9:26:

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

1st Samuel 20:15 reads:

But also thou shalt not cut off thy kindness from my house for ever: no, not when the LORD hath cut off the enemies of David every one from the face of the earth.
 
If anti-Christians "cut off" every believer from the face of the earth then does that argue for extinction?  Only if you deny a resurrection.  

The problem is that annihilationists use the OT where there was mystery and a lack of understanding and will force their views of the OT into the NT.  There was no clear picture of the resurrection.  Many believed it but it was not fully revealed. 

Try finding one person who feared never being reunited with their dead loved one(s) anywhere in the NT.  I do think religious people learn to be cold and calloused to those around them but the thought of not being with my family brings no joy or peace.  The Book of Revelation is to be a blessing to those who read it?  How in the world is the extermination of your family a blessing? 

Just pay careful attention to what annihilationists have you read in the OT because they often refer to a “specific” people cut off from the land.  They refer to a specific people destroyed or that have perished.  Notice that we were dealing with a people back then removed from the earth, not some future resurrection or even some so-called second death. 

Another strange argument by annihilationists is that they see damnation as referring to permanent extinction (fear Him who destroys both body and soul in Gehenna) that was referring to a physical death to a specific people alive and not some second death in the afterlife.  If damnation means annihilationism then how could some have a “greater damnation (annihilationism)”? What degrees of extinct are there?  See my blog on Gehenna:

I had one annihilationist tell me that the one beaten with “few stripes versus many stripes” referred to one taking longer to be annihilated as they are punished more than the other.  I guess God leaves the one on the grill longer to think about what he/she had done before becoming extinct.  This foolishness reminds me of a movie called, “My Cousin Vinny” where Vinny wanted to know if the pants he had on were OK to go deer hunting with the District Attorney.  His fiance (animal lover) comes out and says, “Imagine you are a deer...you get thirsty…you put your lips to the cool water…BAM!!  A bullet rips through your head leaving your brains into a bunch of little bloody pieces…Now I ask you, do you think the deer would care what pants the man had on who shot him?”   
I ask you, do you think the man or woman who is being annihilated slowly will end up caring any different than the man or woman snuffed out quickly from existence?  You are going to be extinct and those you wronged will never be made right.  People commit suicide to get away from their emotional pain and God is supposedly doing the same in the spiritual realm to them, so nobody cares when they are extinct.  Not sure what "God will render to EVERY man according to his deed" really implies if they are all equally annihilated.  Not sure what "every man shall give an account" if he/she is permanently annihilated. 

Annihilationists focus on the verses about losing your own soul as proof for annihilationism when it was dealing with physical life.  See my blog on Matthew 16:25-26:


Annihilationists also focus on the broad road that leads to destruction as they read annihilationism into Matthew 7:13-14.  They carry all these things from the shadows of the OT.  See my blog on Matthew 7:13-14:


Another verse annihilationists use is 2ndThessalonians 1:8-9:

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

The above verses had NOTHING to do with those who died.  The above leaves no room for a resurrection and some so-called second death.  The above verses do not even address all who ever have lived or those who died in the past.  It was dealing only with a specific people that were "alive" during a specific time.  It was not even addressing us today.  Look at the context:

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

The “you” are ONLY the Thessalonians during this specific time and the “them” were specific people during that time who were ALIVE troubling them. 

For years I would quote the above as proof for annihilationism.  I started studying the passage and it dawned on me that the above verse had NOTHING to do with those who died, but only with those who were still alive upon the earth during "that" time.  

Also, the Greek word for "everlasting" is incorrect, as the correct meaning is "age."  Young's Literal Translation got it right when he translated it as:

who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,


If you start studying aion and aionios then you will see how the word early on changed from age to everlasting/eternal/forever, but it simply does not mean that.  Religion quotes Jesus that warned of "eternal fire" as proof but I will quote Jude 1:7 that used the exact same Greek word to describe the "eternal fire" that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah that clearly went out long ago.  Jonah was said to be in the belly of the great fish “forever” (Heb. Olam that is the equivalent to the Greek), but Jonah was only in the belly 3 days.   

The destruction was NEVER an after death experience and it was not to be experienced by every unbeliever who ever lived.  People say that “vengeance” will be taken upon those that “know not God” of all who ever lived (extra words added to the verse not stated).  Think about that for a moment.  The people who never even heard of the bible is when God is going to come upon them with terrible vengeance and will shed their blood and make them non-existent?   You can keep that religious “god.” What Thessalonians is arguing is much like what we read about those in the OT.  They will no longer be your "living" enemies. 

Again, 2nd Thessalonians was not a resurrection to be destroyed but a people destroyed during that time on planet earth.  Also, destruction can refer to ruin and not always death (see Strong’s Concordance), so let's try not to always be so gloomy when it comes to Scripture.  1st Thessalonians 5:3 reads:

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The word "punished" in 2ndThess. 1:9 is not a word that means "physical pain" but pain could be implied.  The word there means "judgment" and "to pay."  The ones troubling them and obey not the gospel (living people addressed) would be the ones who would have sudden destruction falling upon them (the ones who "obey not/believe not" the gospel) and the destruction was not after they died and God threw them into the lake of fire where they die twice forever nonsense. These were even the warnings given in the book of Hebrews.  It had nothing to do with an afterlife experience.  It was a destruction the "earth" (specific nation or nations) would be facing, but not an eternal one or even some second death annihilationism, but one that would last for a period of time.  This destruction was not to all men everywhere either, but it was a warning to the land of the living, and such were directly tied to the unbelievers that were troubling the Thessalonians in the context. 

The "you" in verse 6 was the Thessalonians.  No Thessalonians is suffering trouble today.  It was "them" that were told that those troubling "them" (not you) would experience this recompense, but again, that was talking about the land of the living and not to all future generations.  One thing quite clear is that it was not talking about some after death experience.   

To argue that destruction means annihilationism is plain foolish.  Paul handed the fornicator for the “destruction of the flesh” but that the spirit among the Corinthians might be saved/preserved.  The destruction of the flesh was for correction and not annihilation. 

It is very hard talking to an annihilationist because they see almost every use of the words: perish, destroyed, devoured, destruction, die, death, and damnation as extinction.  I do not even bother talking to them about it because I feel I am talking to a wall.  If they want to believe in a victorious-less Christ then that is their problem and not mine.  I believe all are made alive in Christ and not made dead twice as payment for sin.  God is not imputing sin unto the world but clearly He still does by what religion teaches.  

Romans 11:32:

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The verse is changed by religion to read that God concluded them all in unbelief so that He can extend His mercy to all beyond Israel.  However, unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire that leaves me confused.  If unbelievers are annihilated then how is God showing mercy?  How does His love fail not?  How did Christ die for His enemies and to what purpose was that death for them when they are annihilated?  How does Christ love His enemies when they are annihilated?  I do not show my love for my son by annihilating him.  Enemies might refuse Christ but that does not mean Christ annihilates them for it.  They are the lost coin that never lost its value.  God has been reconciled to the world even though the world might not have been reconciled to Him (2ndCorinthians 5:19).  Annihilationism was not adding up for me. 

Paul said to walk after the flesh is "death" compared to walking after the Spirit is "life and peace" in Romans 8.  Death was not seen as extinction but rather the life one was experiencing.  Ephesians 2:1 teaches that we "were dead in trespasses and sins" but that clearly does not mean extinct.  The one who does not love his brother is said to "abide in death" that does not mean annihilationism.  Sara's womb was said to be dead that does not mean non-existent.  Jesus was said to have died upon Calvary but how was He that same day in paradise with the thief if death implies extinction?  This is where the word game is played by religion with the changing of "I say unto you, Today you shall be with me in paradise" to "I say unto you today, you shall be with me in paradise (some future day)."  

I do believe annihilationism runs too far with the words perish and destruction.  Look at Job 9:22:

22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.

God destroys the perfect and the wicked into total extinction?  Look at Job 34:15:

15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

All flesh does die and we do turn to dust.  Adam was told that he would return to dust but annihilated forever?  

Did Job believe he would be annihilated when he said this in Job 7:

O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
  
Look at Job 10:

20 Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.

Righteous Job annihilated?  It rather sounds that Job did not know of a resurrection.  Are we to assume that Job would see no more good?  We read elsewhere in the OT about the dead unable to praise and how the dead remember "no more."  This was simply the picture they had of death.  David did say that the dead would rise and praise Him when others did not.  

Job says this in chapter 19:

10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

Sorry, when you see such words as destroyed, death, removed, and gone in the OT is not to rush to the thought "permanent extinction."  There are verses like the above that seem to indicate it but Paul makes it quite clear that "all will be made alive" and not only a select few.  

We have to be careful because Scriptures can be twisted to say anything.  I can make it teach that one will never physically die if I wanted.  Jesus said that if one "keeps" His sayings shall never die (once, not two times as annihilationists teach).  Solomon said that in the pathway of righteousness is no death (Proverbs 12:28).  If we take those verses at face value then I proved present immortality.  How about never having a disease in life?  I can quote David for proof.  This means you will never suffer the cold or flu again.  I think you know better.  I thought I knew better when formerly embracing the teachings of annihilationism.

Let's face it, we have verses that appear to be universal as well in the OT not teaching annihilationism:

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.  (Psalm 22:27-29).

A parallel in my opinion to the above would be Revelation 5:13:

13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 

Universalists have their list of OT verses they believe proves the salvation of all.

Annihilationists believe that God is being merciful in destroying the sinner.  They claim that God has to destroy the sinner because he/she rejected the gospel.  They believe God cannot simply be merciful to the sinner and pardon all sins (that actually was the result of Calvary and not our act of believing) but will instead be merciful in destroying them.  They believe the sinner rejecting the gospel did so by his/her freewill and God will not violate that freewill and forgive and save them.  However, my question is what sinner possessing a freewill will say, "Annihilate me God"?  Do they have a freewill choice in the matter?  If God is going to violate their freewill by destroying them then why can't He violate their freewill in sparing them?  Let's face it, I did not sin in the Garden as I did not exercise my freewill, so why do I have to "in Adam all die"?  I did not choose death but another chose it for me.  Why cannot another chose another option on my behalf?  Praise the Lord, Christ was the undoing of Adam.  As I died in Adam apart from my freewill is to be made alive in Christ apart from my freewill.  

For me to live is Christ, and to die is annihilation?  No, it is gain (Philippians 1:21).  

You will find annihilationism camping out heavily in the OT.  Immortality was not a huge topic in the OT.  Look at what Paul said in 2nd Timothy 1:10:

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

He brought it to "light."  I quoted a few verses to show how those in the OT viewed death.  They were not shouting, "Death, where is thy victory?"  It was not a clear cut topic that we have in the NT. 

Again, the good news brought to light "life and immortality" that was not clear in the OT.  Look at Hebrews 2:15:

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

Fear of death is removed through the resurrection. I do believe in the death no more and the sorrow no more.  Paul told us to not "sorrow" as those who have no hope (1st Thessalonians 4:13).  Those who have no hope does not mean that they are "hopeless and doomed" but they have no hope (confident expectation) of the resurrection.  The resurrection back then is not anything like all the bizarre teachings going on today.  Everyone today thinks they go to heaven when they die.  You will not find that teaching back then.  The resurrection and immortality was brought to light by the good news.  Those who did hear the good news or believed it were those who faced death with fear.  Sad, but most hellfire minded Christians die with more fear than that of the unbeliever. 

Annihilationists have the strange belief concerning the love of God that hellfire forever advocates do.  God's love will annihilate you?  God's love fails.  I can love better than their "god" can.  Again, see my blog on Gehenna:


Paul tells us that nothing shall separate us from His love in Romans 8.  Religion reads Romans 8 as to believers only.  The God who "so loved the world" was never a love that would prevent Him from separating from people.  Only those who believe will be loved by God differently than those who do not believe???  So we have God who loved His enemies so much that He died for them to only have them annihilated seems awfully weird to me.  God who is not imputing the sins to the world and has been reconciled to the world will annihilate the world of unbelievers???  Annihilate them for what?  Something has to be imputed now to annihilate them.  
God will annihilate those whom He "so loved" (John 3:16)???  Sorry, I see those in Romans 8 who "live after the flesh shall die" are still those that even "death" shall not separate them from His love.  If God could be reconciled to such people who are not even believers (2nd Cor. 5:19) and that His love died for them while they were UNGODLY and ENEMIES then it is a bit odd to say that death will bring their extinction.  Love hides a multitude of sins but I guess unbelievers have gone beyond the multitude.  Love is patient but I guess God's patience can run out with a man who lived 20 years who rejected their message. 

Annihilationism did to me what other "isms" had done.  They get you agreeing from the start and they keep going where you feel overwhelmed that you just heard truth when all they are doing is getting you to see words from their angle. I know people who have embraced annihilationism that later had questions popping into their heads making them question this belief of annihilationism.  I had that done to me with Calvinism and even Lordship Salvation.  Watch a Jehovah Witness share many verses as they try convincing the person that what they have shared is 100% biblical.  We simply begin seeing scripture their way.  Every time we see the words "perish" is to think that such a person is annihilated.  This is the same thing where hellfire advocates see the word "perish" and see "frying consciously in pain." 


I believe I shared enough.  The soul that sins shall die (in Adam all die) as Adam was the living soul but Jesus the quickening spirit.  In Adam all die but in Christ all shall be made alive.  Christ died for all and all died.  If we died with Him then we shall live with Him.  If we were planted in the likeness of His death (we all were 2nd Cor. 5:14) then we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection.  The bible never conditioned resurrection upon believing it.  The resurrection is the direct result of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on behalf of all.  

Annihilationism is simply a false teaching less extreme than the hellfire forever advocates being taught today but it is still a false teaching.    

Random thoughts on Grace

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This blog was simply facing the keyboard and typing the things that filled my mind.  No specific order but sharing some things concerning grace.

You are the son or daughter God always wanted.  It was you that His love was set upon.  God loves you as much as He loves His own Son (John 17:23).  God loved willful enemies so much that He died for them (Romans 5:10). 

Grace is always greater than sin.  You can never out-sin grace.  If you think grace cannot be abused then it is not grace you believe.  Grace never abandons.  If you feel abandoned or alienated then your mindset is not upon grace.  Law excludes sinners while Grace embraces sinners.  If grace cannot embrace you until you improve your behavior or stop sinning then it was never grace.  Grace accepts you as you are.  Grace loves you as you are. 

A fleshly mindset is one preoccupied with sin.  If any sin or circumstance can cause you to doubt the love of God is a revealing of a fleshly mindset.

The gospel is the good news concerning who you are.  You are a new creation because everything of the old is gone whether you believe that or not.  You are forgiven of all trespasses and sins.  You are loved.  You are accepted.  You are reconciled.  You are the praise of His glory.  You are made righteous.  Read 2nd Corinthians 5:14-21 carefully.  If God is not imputing sin to the world then how is God today beholding the world?  If God is reconciled to the world then how is God beholding the world?  What was the “sin of the world” that Jesus had “taken away” (John 1:29)?  What does “He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world” mean to you? 

The test of faith is anything that comes your way to try and sway you from believing/beholding what you truly are in Christ Jesus.  Are you a forgetful hearer?  Do you walk away from the law of liberty forgetting who you truly are?  As Jesus is, so are you in the world.  Does sin make you doubt that?  Do your negative circumstances make you doubt that?  Do you listen to your negative feelings make you doubt that?  Do listening to religious man-made external tests that supposedly prove your salvation nonsense cause you doubt that?  Such things can shipwreck faith.  Such is a fleshly mindset.  Will you believe the reality of who you are in Christ regardless of what religion or the world tells you and receive a crown of righteousness or will you die bowing your head in shame that the religious fleshly minded life produces? 

To “keep the faith” is not a life of efforts to stop sinning but life where nothing (sin or circumstance) can sway you from your true reality in Christ.  Your identity is never affected by sin or circumstance but unbelief makes you think it can.  Even if we believe not is to know that Christ abides faithful.

Religion is obsessed with sin and circumstances as a test of spiritual reality.  9/11 was judgment upon America they claim.  Hurricane Katrina was sent by God.  Disease is from the hands of God to punish sinners they claim.  No wonder so many are turning to atheism because of such religious insanity.  When terrible things come our way reveals who has a fleshly mindset versus those who do not.  This is why religious people wonder why unbelievers seem happier than them.  This is why religious people wonder why unbelievers appear to have good fortune compared to them.  It is a known fact that unbelievers die a better death than the religious people who had been screaming hellfire judgment at them for years. 

No condemnation and no separation from His love is a glorious reality.  Do you believe that or does your fleshly “sin conscious” mind dispute it?  A mind with little law or with little condemnation can never enjoy no condemnation.  Those who preach law oriented condemnation experience condemnation.  Do not listen to those who preach mean-spirited messages against sinners because they know not the “friend of sinners.” 

Do you believe God is angry?  If so, you have a fleshly mindset.  Do you believe God favors another well-behaved Christian over you?  If so, you have a fleshly mindset.  Do you believe God is sick and tired of your repeat sin?  If so, you have a fleshly mindset.  It is you that fails the grace of God and not grace ever failing you.  Grace can never fail.  Grace that is greater than sin will always be greater than you too.  Grace always embraces you but you fall from Grace embracing law.  You might lose your grip on grace but grace never loses its grip on you.  If grace loses its grip on you then it was never grace, and it certainly was not greater than all sin.  Will you resort to calling that "Greasy Grace"?  If so, then I like for you to remember that years down the road when all of your efforts still result in no "lasting" assurance or joy.  Even grace is greater than your blasphemous statement against grace.  Maybe you will finally come to embrace the grace that embraced you.   

Are you as righteous as Jesus Christ?  Are you as accepted as the apostle Paul?  If you have doubts is revealing a fleshly mindset. 

Paul said in Romans 8, “Who is he that condemns?”  The sad reality is many people condemn themselves.  Jesus does not condemn.  People misread verse 1 as saying, “Get yourself into Christ and He will not condemn you.”  No, those who walk “after the flesh” experience condemnation as walking after the flesh in Romans 8 was a law oriented mindset.  The Law condemns when Jesus does not.  The reason you feel condemned is because you are listening to an old system that has been abolished.  If you listen to what Jesus says is to hear no condemnation even if caught in the very act of sin.

If I were to say, “Frank does not have a mean-spirited bone ‘in him’ at all” is not saying that you have to get ‘in Frank’ to experience the ‘no mean-spirited bone.’  I am saying that 'in Frank' there is not a mean-spirited bone period.  There is no condemnation in Christ Jesus period.  There is not an ounce of condemnation in Him.  You do not get ‘in Him’ to experience no condemnation but the reality is that there is no condemnation in Him at all but people live in fear of condemnation until they somehow get their lifestyle in order first that is a fleshly mindset.   

The ONLY people who feel rejected of Christ are those who are law oriented.  The highest concentration of "I feel rejected" people are church people.  Who is he that condemns when it was Jesus who died? Stop condemning yourself when the triune Godhead is not condemning you.  Let religion condemn you all they like but never let them sway you from the reality that religious people never get to enjoy.   

A sin oriented mind sears the conscience but a grace oriented one frees a person to enjoy life.  Are you miserable over your sins?  Replace your law oriented mind with a grace oriented one instead. 

A mind focused on quitting sin will only commit sin more.  You tend to gravitate toward the thing you always think about.  The one sin you always think about trying to avoid will be the one sin that always will haunt you with what seems like unbearable temptation.  However, Grace accepts every flaw you see in yourself and robs sin its strength.  Grace is where you can say right now, “All is well.”  Grace frees the mind entirely of thinking about sin.  If you feel rejected by God for your sins then you are not grace oriented. 

What the Law demanded is what Grace supplied.  What you see as lack through the eyes of the Law is already met in Grace. Those sins you see that required a sacrifice in the OT is now gone forever in the sacrifice of Christ.  Being sin conscious implies you have a guilty conscience.  A guilty conscience can never rest in grace because it is mixed with law. 

Many are trying to quit their sins to enjoy grace and are miserable rather than enjoying their lives because of grace.  You are complete in Christ.  There is no lack.

Is this a license to sin?  Only in religion is there a license to sin.  How?  Listen to religious people constantly justifying their sins.  They are the ones who always talk about sin.  They are the ones who claim that you cannot practice sin but listen to what they say concerning their repeat sins.  They do not call the repeated sins "practice" but rather "occasional mishaps."  They claim that if you are fighting against sin then you are not "practicing" sin.  How utterly ridiculous.  Paul even said that even those who seek to have you under the Law fail to keep it.  You can never keep law, but grace always keeps you.  Do not fail the grace of God by returning back to a law system/mindset. 

We do not have a license to sin but a freedom from sin entirely at this very moment.  Sin is no longer to reign as king.  I do not have to listen to it.  I have died to sin.  I do not have to think about my sin.  God remembers my sin no more.  God is not imputing a single sin unto the world.  Sin has no power over me.  However, join religion and you will discover how powerful sin is in their lives and that is due to them not knowing grace.  Sin is practically all what religious people think and talk about. Think about yourself for a moment.  Do you struggle with peace and assurance?  If so, what is the first thing that enters your mind as a possible reason?  Your fleshly oriented mind probably went hunting for a possible unknown sin or unconfessed sin or some lack of obedience on your part.  You cannot mix grace with Law even slightly or you will be miserable.  

Faith does not affect sin and circumstances as it will not make them magically go away.  So many are always praying for God to take care of certain sins or circumstances in their lives that they believe is behind their struggle to believe.  I know a man who blamed his unbelieving wife for his struggle to believe in grace.  I know many who blame pornography as the reason for their struggles to believe in grace.  They want such things corrected or removed before they can believe that God accepts them and loves them.  This is a great error of a fleshly mindset.  Faith is not you believing and then trying to make your flesh behave like a Christian.  Faith is simply you beholding your reality as you are right now.  Only religion throws a rulebook at you and claims that failing the rulebook may prove you never believed nonsense.  Only religion will backdoor Law into Grace.  

Right now picture in your mind what a perfect believer is to you that would give you assurance if you could ever reach what you perceive as a perfect believer.  Think about all the things you think will make you acceptable to God.  Think about what behavior will have to be present and what sins would have to be gone.  What your fleshly mind is conjuring up as an ideal believer is actually only a partial reality.  The partial reality is that you allow some flaws to be present in that believer but the reality is that, "As Christ is, so are we in this world."  There are no flaws as there are no flaws in His body.  Sin has been taken away.  We are "made" the righteousness of God.  We are "complete" in Him.  We are "perfected forever" in Christ Jesus.  God remembers our sins no more.  We are made "holy" once for all.  What you are striving for in your religious endeavors will always come short of what is already true.  Your religious endeavors to be such things in practice will only serve to frustrate the living tar out of you.  Let grace permeate your thinking.  You are not to make your "state" (behavior) match your "standing" (how God sees you) as religion teaches, as that will frustrate you to no end and will make you conscious of how weak and helpless you truly are.  Instead, you are to renew your mind and have your mind mirror that permanent "standing" you do have in Christ Jesus.   

The one thing that irks religious people is when they hear, "God remembers your sins no more...even while sinning."  They hate to hear, "God loves sinners who sin terribly."  They hate it more when one says, "God loves believers while they sin." To make them angrier is to reveal the reality that, "God loves the believer who sins as much as the believer who does not." They hate to hear that if a believer does not do another good work for God is to know that God is just as pleased with them.  His good pleasure in us is all due to our identity and not performance.  Religion who hates this reveals their mixture of Law and Grace.  They are grace haters and do not even see it.  If you cannot accept those statements is to never know lasting peace and assurance because your understanding of Grace is that you have to meet some minimum requirements for God to be pleased and love the likes of you. That is a destructive mindset.  

The above is not saying that we are now blessed to go and sin away freely but we know that if we sin that we have an advocate.  We know that Jesus has taken sin away where we no longer have to try and sow on fig leaves as religious people do to cover shame.  We do not fear the light as religious people do.  We do not have to walk on eggshells around God.  We are free to be ourselves and being ourselves is beholding the reality of who we actually are in Christ.  We know we are perpetually forgiven of sin.  We can keep our minds out of the religious gutter of sin consciousness and flaws.  Sin never defines who we are ever.  We can stop worrying about our sins.  We can stop thinking about them because if we do not then we will never know the true image of God we were made in, and that true image is after righteousness and true holiness (not performance).  Religion defines righteousness by performance but we enjoy it by faith.  Their eyes are veiled and it is pointless to say that they do not even see that their eyes are veiled.  

The world of religion will see our sins and condemn us for them.  The world of religion will call us the sin we repeatedly do.  However, sins can never define our true reality we have in Christ Jesus.  We are created after the image of God in righteousness and true holiness that religious people are still trying to achieve in their efforts.  Only such a mindset of our true identity frees us from even thinking about our sins.  We are no longer sin (guilty) conscious.  We are forever the praise of His glory and that is where our thinking is fixed upon!

Faith is simply seeing past the sin and circumstances and instead beholds the reality of who they truly are in Christ Jesus.  Faith is based not on the seen realm but rather the unseen realm.  To believe sin or circumstances puts a barrier between them and God or that sin or circumstances may prove they do not belong to Him then their faith is based on the seen (fleshly mindset) realm.  Their mindset reveals that they know not righteousness.  There is a righteousness by Law (fleshly mindset) and a righteousness by faith.  The Law demanded righteousness that Paul said that there are "none, no not one," but Grace supplied it even when we feel we are at our worst.  Everything we formerly were in the "first Adam" is gone and everything in the "second Adam" is now the reality.  Do you have a former old man mentality or a new man reality mindset?  

The next time you sin...The next time a negative circumstance comes your way...The next time you feel God is miles away...The next time you feel God is angry is when you are in a position to choose to believe what you see in the physical realm (not a reality) or you can look past it and know that the trying of your faith is more precious than gold.  Is your identity based on Jesus Christ or upon your performance?  You cannot mix the two.  

Are you honestly claiming your gospel works?

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Are you an honest or dishonest believer?  Are you the real deal or are you faking Christianity? 

What does your heart say concerning the gospel you believe?  If your heart could speak then would it validate the gospel you claim to believe or would it embarrass you in front of others? 

Share your gospel aloud to yourself but listen to your heart.  Is your heart validating it or questioning it?  Does your heart validate the forgiveness of sins or do you still question whether God has forgiven you?  

Imagine your mind and heart sharing the gospel to a total stranger.  Would they contradict each other on each point confusing that stranger as what to believe?  Would your mind say, “This is truth” but would your heart still be longing for what the truth said it would bring (freedom, abundant life, joy)?  

Do not lie to yourself as I used to do myself when asked questions that made me uncomfortable.  We often go searching our lives for those "moments" when we felt very close to God to get around the questions I am now asking.  We go searching for those times when we felt God's love in a special way.  We go searching for those moments where we felt forgiven or even felt joy or assurance.  This way one can answer, "Yes, my gospel has produced such liberating feelings and experiences" even though you would not describe your life as liberated.  If you are honest then you would realize that such an experience is common with other religions that believe a different gospel than you do.  I am talking about an abiding reality and not some yo-yo experience that "all" have experienced.  It is important that you be completely honest with yourself, as lying to yourself might preserve your pride but lying never will free you.  Truth shall set you free but lying never will. The sooner people become honest the quicker they can be free. 

Does your gospel proclaim peace while your heart cries for one drop of water?  Does your gospel proclaim forgiveness of sins while your heart only knows guilt?  Does your gospel proclaim the love of God while your heart fears His anger and wrath?  Does your gospel proclaim reconciliation while your heart is still seeking friendship? 

Do you define your life as one consciously aware of the love of God?  I will make this easy and will simply ask how would the past two weeks define you?  Would your thought life drive those who are depressed into the loving arms of the Father or are you the depressed still looking for the loving arms of the Father?  

Are you at rest or are you tirelessly trying to find that rest? 

Do you believe or do wonder if you believe?  This is a huge problem among religious people.  They claim you do nothing to be saved but then worry if they have done the “believing” correctly to be saved. 

Are you conscious of assurance or are you still reading articles and books to find assurance?  Do you tell others that you are assured but deep down you know that is a lie?

You know being honest about the real you would make your religion all vain if you lacked peace and assurance that you claim your gospel brings.  Imagine sharing the gospel and then saying, “I have no lasting assurance of the things I just shared with you.  I describe myself as a spiritual yo-yo when it comes to assurance.” 

Honest Christians are those who might preach what they were taught but they know deep down that it simply is not working.  These are often what religion calls “backsliders” because such people can only handle so much before wandering away for a while.  Some honest Christians turned to atheism because they not only realized the contradictory claims of their religion but they realized that none of the things they were taught brought peace and joy.

Honest Christians recognize that something is wrong.  They never seem to make the connection that their religion/gospel is behind their misery and some will sadly never let go of it fearing the consequence "their" religion claims will happen.   

Many wonder why they feel so relaxed when they walk away from Christianity briefly or permanently.  Read the testimonies of former Christians turned atheists as they share the joy of now living life they felt robbed of for years while in Christianity. They describe actually being happy.  Do you believe they are deceived claiming happiness or will you consider that maybe you are deceived for not having happiness? 

At my former job, the maintenance manager had a joke thumb tacked to his wall that said, “Jesus might love you, but the rest of us think you’re an *******” as he did not have much respect for Christianity.  You can lie with your lips but not your heart.  What do people think of you?  Do they see Jesus the friend of sinners or a person frustrated, angry, and full of criticism? 

Are you an actor or the real deal?

I had a man recently email me about how he walked away from Christianity and how he feels better.  His wife is a Christian but stated that she enjoys the “new” him that is away from Christianity.  He is sharing the better person he had become away from Christianity.  He shared how he went out of his way to be nice to his neighbor he previously (while in his Christianity) could not stand to be around but now went over and enjoyed a couple of beers with him.  I know religious people are focusing on the word "beers" in that sentence as this is the real critical them reading this blog.

A strange thing it is to demonstrate more of a love of Christ away from Christianity than in it.  Many discover this truth but erroneously make the connection that they are happier away from God rather than their religion.  They blame God for making them miserable rather than their religion.  They fail to see their gospel formula was never real.  One man said that if it is a formula then it was never milk.  

I said in another blog that atheists are closer to the truth than most Christians are.  Why?  Because atheists threw out the “god” of religion and are now in a place to accept the God of all grace.  Only dishonest Christians will hold on to their religion believing they are the one true religion.  Dishonest Christians will not admit, “Hey!  Something is not right here.  Where is this peace and joy that the world does not experience as they seem happier than me?  Where is this abundant life?  Why do I struggle so much with believing God and the gospel?  Why am I so angry all the time?  Why am I so frustrated?  Why does God seem so distant from me?  I always feel guilty.  I feel so sinful.  My God seems so displeased.”

Honest Christians never stepped completely over into Dishonest Christianity.  Dishonest Christianity are those who simply believe what they experience is the norm.  They are content with the mire of bondage while honest Christians want out.  In fact, they call bondage freedom, as they never tasted true joy and peace that they claim to experience.  I have read articles where they call all the miseries one claims to experience in Christianity as signs of life and for them to rejoice in such things. 

If your heart had lips then would it lead people to Christ?  Is there a glorious party going on inside of your heart?  Do you enjoy the abundant life?  Do you really believe that your miseries that religion calls normal would woo the world your way?  Was Jesus a miserable man?  Do you believe He was miserable and His miserable life wooed people to Him?  Would you want your child to feel like you do?  Would you want your child to live the Christianity you do? Would you want them to experience their deathbed the way you fear deep down you might experience yours (fear and uncertainty)? 

I see so many who get enraged when one claims not to believe in hell in some afterlife.  Why are they so angry?  I hear some claim that it robs people of a fear that they should have.  I however see a people learning about a love that casts out all fear that religion seeks to instill in people.  If a literal hell fire torture pit in the afterlife were not true then how would that affect religion that uses hell as a manipulative tool?   Did you know that those who scream, “Turn or Burn” tend to be the ones who die a very uneasy death compared to unbelievers? Question, if a forever torture pit in the afterlife did not exist then how would knowing that affect you? 

Christianity tends to be those that live worried about what lies at deaths door.  How about you?  What would you do if you found out that you only had 60 seconds to live?  Would you be confessing every possible sin as quick as possible?  Would you mentally try to forgive every person that ticked you off?  Would you pray again that erroneous sinner’s prayer that religion taught you to pray?  Would you try quoting every assurance verse to arouse your heart into assurance?   Would you be psycho-analyzing your Christian life (works, sins, and so on) to draw assurance from it or would you be telling God how sorry you are?  Would you worry which sort of God would be meeting you beyond deaths door (angry/loving)?  You can lie with your lips but what does your heart say?  What would a death bed experience reveal about the real you? 

I know one person that always talked a big game when it came to her death.  She was disease free and spoke confidently of facing death triumphantly.  She shared how she would want people to rejoice at her funeral because she was in heaven.  Well, death came knocking shortly after her conversation she had with me but her so-called assurance went on vacation.  I rarely see people as scared as she got.  She was in tears claiming that she did not have complete certainty.  Her religion was based on the externals (most are) and it showed. She did a great job lying to me with her lips but death made her heart speak.

Religion believes that their gospel is the only true gospel because they have members who used to smoke, drink, and do drugs but not anymore.  Let us be honest, any religious cult can make that claim.  Are you only a poster child for religion?  Are you all clean outwardly?  What would your heart say to us about your inward parts? 

If we can see in your heart then what would it reveal about you?  Are you full of assurance?  Do you have joy unspeakable?  Does the love of God rule your heart?  Does peace rule your heart?  Are you no longer sin conscious?  Are you guilt free?  Are you free from fear?  If not, please examine the gospel you believe.

If you are not free then do not think that you are embracing the true gospel.  Do not be the person I once was by thinking it will only get better.  Do not think getting rid of that one sin will make it better.  Do not think understanding more theology will make it all better.  Do not think that a little more clarity on your gospel will make it all come together, as it just might be "your gospel” making you miserable. 

The wrong gospel is never the power of God unto salvation as it simply does not work.  The gospel speaks directly to the mind while the devil (Law/Religion) blinds/veils the mind and speaks to the flesh.  If your gospel is presented as a formula then remember that it is not true milk. 

Question any gospel that has "points" that have to be in a specific order.  Question any gospel that preaches bad news.  Question any gospel that preaches alienation and separation that God removed (see 2nd Corinthians 5:19; Colossians 1:20-21).  Question any gospel makes you worry if you did not do something right.  Question any gospel that makes you worry if you did not do something enough.  Question any gospel that produces anxiety.  Question any gospel that makes you sin conscious.  Question any gospel that limits what God can do until you do something first.  Question any gospel that makes the first Adam more powerful than the second Adam.  Question any gospel that uses fear to get you to respond.  Question any gospel that will backdoor works into it.  Question any gospel that makes you doubt God based on your future works or sins.  Question any gospel that makes any law declarations in it.  Question any gospel that tells you things you must start doing. 

The true gospel will bring out the real you.  The real you will stop trying to hide from God every time you believe you screw up.  The real you will no longer be thinking He is ticked off with you. The real you is based on God's faith and not yours.  We believe His faith concerning us.  What God believes about you (not religion) is what the heart rests in.  
 
Stop thinking the real gospel will make you stop sinning or sin less because that alters ones perception of the glorious 'gospel of grace' and perverts it into the 'gospel of conforming' that is no gospel.  I wish believers would learn the lesson that God is not answering the prayer, "God, take away this pet sin of mine."  How many times have you prayed about that certain sin(s) you struggled with now for a long time that has yet to go away?  How many more prayers before you will learn that it will not be answered?  The only reason you keep praying for God to take it away is because you think God is worried and upset about it.  You think God is irritated with you.  You think God has some anger in Him against your faults.  You think God still imputes sin because you keep repeating that one sin.  You think there is a certain amount of unhappiness in God's heart toward you.  You think God's love and forgiveness is conditional.  You think God has to be at least a little disappointed with you.  You are believing lies!

Those who are worried and fighting against their sins are always those who do not enjoy forgiveness of sins.  Fighting sins is not how one enjoys forgiveness of sins.  Fighting sins is how one will perpetually question whether God has forgiven them.  It will make you aware of your failure that was the purpose of the Law.  I rather fight against a sin consciousness than some sin that clearly I am unable to beat.  Fighting against those repeated sins only gives strength to such sins. Fighting against sins will make you aware of how weak your flesh truly is and that is no way to live.  

Feeling that my sins reveal my shortcomings before God will NEVER allow for 'forgiveness of sins' to be enjoyed.  It is "forgiveness of sins" and not "forgiveness of not sinning."  It is enjoying sins forgiven and not sins refrained.  How can you enjoy forgiveness of sins if you are too busy trying not to sin to enjoy forgiveness of sins?  

Forgiveness of sins are enjoyed by those who sin and not the self-righteous.  Only religious people will read into what I just said and will say, "So shall we sin to enjoy forgiveness of sins?" Forgiveness of sins is what we enjoy and never some erroneous fixation upon sins to enjoy.  I am not enjoying sins committed but sins forgiven.  I do not commit sins to purposely enjoy forgiveness of sins and I do not quit sins to enjoy the forgiveness of sins.  Forgiveness of sins are enjoyed by those who sin so do not read more into that statement than I gave.  

Where sin abounds is to behold the grace that super abounds.  Grace will always exceed all sin ever committed.  This does not mean that we turn fleshly and think about doing sins to allow grace to demonstrate its beauty.  It is for us to not be sin conscious (we have died to sin) and to live in the glorious reality that grace super abounds in all areas of our life always.  Remember, grace is greater than our sins but never forget that grace is even greater than us as well.

You do not come up short today.  Religion loves to quote Romans 3:23 that tells us that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God that was before Calvary but fails to read what happened as the result of Calvary in verse 24.  We were "justified freely by His grace."  Freely means, "without a cause/reason."  Do not live your life feeling "shorted" because you have all things in Christ Jesus. 

Those who are forgiven much are said to love much, and never those who sin less love more.  A sin less attitude makes one conscious of failure and Law.  I never get out of bed thinking, "How can I sin less today?" because that will lead to an exhausting day made up of failure.  I do not dwell on my sins as I have died to it.  I do not allow sin to reign as king.  There is a reason why we are to have our hearts sprinkled clean from an "evil conscience" (sin conscience; guilty conscience).  An evil conscience does not enjoy forgiveness of sins as everything to an evil conscience is impure. 

Religion would have you live life with the OT mentality, "Woe is me."  Religion would have you live in remorse over your sins of omission and that of commission.  Living in remorse does not breed love but rather a sense of distance and alienation from the one who so loved you.  Those who struggle to believe they are forgiven tend to be easily angered and appears to be quite often.  They tend to be critical of others and even love to argue.  It seems that the more one doubts forgiveness the more critical they are of others.  Those struggling with forgiveness are easily irritated.  They often quote all the verses on forgiveness of sins to arouse some nice brief feelings but that is never the route where one enjoys the forgiveness of sins perpetually. 

How do you experience "forgiven much/love much"?  By focusing on the very person you are right now while beholding "no condemnation" over a single thing you do or not do.  It is you saying, "Wow!  What a screw up I am and God loves me and accepts me as I am and not with some demand to clean myself up." Our response should be, "Wow!  God has forgiven someone like me!" and not, "How can God forgive someone like me?" The moment we say, "Oh no!  I just did that sin again" is when the mind experiences condemnation and feelings that God is angry and hiding His face from us.  This is what causes people to question forgiveness rather than enjoy forgiveness because their "god" is, "Clean up your act or else." 

I personally do not view myself as a screw up but was using that as an example.  I merely view the obvious contradiction of how I see myself through the eyes of the flesh/law and who I truly am in Christ Jesus.  Looking at myself through the eyes of the Law is when I see myself as a train wreck but looking at myself through the eyes of Jesus Christ is when I see righteousness and true holiness.  I see a person free of blemish and spot.  I see one accepted and loved.  I see one who is the praise of His glory. 

A fleshly mindset will see flaws but a spiritual mindset sees "perfected forever."  I do not mix the fleshly mindset with the spiritual mindset that religion attempts to do because my years of experience taught me that religion only knows death rather than life and peace in the Spirit.  This is not the progressive sanctification nonsense, "Make your behavior match your position in Christ" that never works.  It is mirroring my mind to that true reality I have in Christ.

People often fight against sins because they fear punishment.  Why are you in such a heated battle with your sins?  Is it because you think someone is angry or might retaliate for your sins?  Ask yourself if it is because you fear consequences from God.  Religion says that they fight against their sins because they love God and do not want to do things that are not pleasing in His sight.  That sounds so good but it is not what honest Christians experience deep down.  You are only aware of constant failure to "please" God who is already pleased with you!  You will only question the sincerity of your love every time you fail.  Live out of the reality that you are well-pleasing 24/7 regardless of what you do or not do and see how that affects your life.  

The gospel is you ALREADY accepted even with that pet sin.  You do not lose the pet sin to be accepted and you do not lose the pet sin to stay accepted.  The Law revealed that none is righteous so what will all the inconsistent efforts to do legal righteousness do for the gospel?  Also, what will it do for you?  Will legal righteousness make you more righteous in the sight of God?  Will sin make you less righteous in the sight of God?  Will legal righteousness make you more forgiven than you already are?  Will it make you more accepted in the Beloved than you already are?  Will it make you better in the eyes of God?  Will it make God bless you?  Did you find your insane efforts made life better for you?  Are you happier?  Did those insane efforts make God's love and forgiveness seem so incredibly real to you?  Get rid of the religion!

The gospel did not come along with magical powers to make you behave righteously.  You will find that the sins you committed before believing the gospel are still there after you believe the gospel.  All of your attempts to fight those sins away only kept them around all of these years.  Give up the battle!  I said, "Give up the battle!" and not "Give in to your sins" as there is a difference, since "both" (battle/give in to sin) are a fleshly mindset. 

Giving up the battle is knowing that sin is dead and defeated.  Giving up the battle is knowing that all of those sins you are conscious of are forgiven and forgotten.  Giving up the battle is you knowing that those sins will not and cannot make you any less accepted than you already are.  This is how we can get our minds out of the fleshly gutter of sin consciousness.  If you are sin conscious then you believe that God is sin conscious too.  If sin can cause you to doubt who you are in Christ then you fail the test of faith that is more precious than gold and silver. Never doubt your true identity based on anything you do or feel. 

I cannot describe the joy of living my life without worrying about my sins.  I am being myself and no longer faking it.  I am not wearing the mask of religion anymore.  I threw away the fig leaves and now live naked before God without the shame.  I do not have to put on a holier than thou performance.  I do not have to do the daily bible studies to feel better.  I do not have to listen to Christian music all day to try to keep myself in some godly frame of mind with nice feelings to accompany it. 

I live in my new identity that NOTHING can affect.  The life I live is CHRIST who lives in me as the old me is dead and buried.  As Christ is, so am I in this world.  My mindset is not upon the flesh.  It is not upon the fleshly mindset of, “What sins can I do today?” that is not the mind of Christ.  It is also not upon the other fleshly mindset of, “God, I vow not to do this sin today but will be as obedient as possible to every Law commanded” as that is not the mind of Christ for us.   

I live out of the new identity of who I am in Christ Jesus.  I do not live with a sin consciousness.  I behold myself as righteous and holy and not sinful and disgusting.  I view myself as one who "doeth righteousness" (by faith/not law), and not one who needs to focus on making myself more righteous in the sight of God (Law/religion).  I do not beat myself up over sin but rather lift myself up rejoicing due to His victory over sin and my death to sin.  I am buried and I prefer keeping my old self there.  I put off the old man and his deeds by putting on the new man that is renewed not by efforts to behave but rather, "renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him" (Col. 3:10).  

I threw away the Law as I have died to it.  The Law cannot even give me a spiritual parking ticket. The Law revealed the old me that failed in every attempt and revealed that I was guilty of the whole Law.  The Gospel reveals the new me and I renew my mind in that reality daily.  It is this mindset that I see my acceptance along with God’s eternal loving grip of me that never fails.  With no condemnation lingering over me has brought out the truest me that religion sought to cover with fig leaves.  God loves Dave as Dave and not as some religious puppet. The religious strings of fear and guilt manipulation no longer pull my arms and feet.  I have cast out the bondwoman and her son.  I live free but what about you? 

I can say a lot more on this subject but I simply want you to be honest with yourself.  Does your gospel really work?  Maybe you still need a few more years struggling away at your sins.  Maybe you need a few more years of trying to find assurance.  Maybe you need a few more years believing your religion holds the one true gospel.  Maybe you need a few more years of being unhappy and critical of others.  Maybe a few more years of anything else going on in your life since you embraced religion to finally cause you to stop and question it all. 

I will be very blunt and use a word I do not normally use but I want you to think about it carefully.  If the gospel you hear/believe makes you feel like crap then it probably is crap.  Would it really kill you to believe that maybe God is too good to be true?  Would it kill you to believe that God accepts you as you are?  Would it kill you to be happy and content for once?  Would it kill you to be able to love your neighbor and accept him/her with all of their faults? Would it kill you to have a God love you with all the faults and blemishes "you" see in your life?  Would it kill you to question your gospel/religion???

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