8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
How about 1st Samuel 10:19 that reads:
One thing that I have learned is that those who talk about hell the loudest are those who lack compassion, patience, kindness, assurance, and love. Hotter the hell the angrier the person. Read the Youtube comments on hell and try finding the love and compassion. Then be sure to read the experiences of those who came to see the love of God and the "hell-less" (no hellfire forever) view and how they were transformed. Not transformed into, "Excellent! What sin can I do today?" but rather, "I have a heart full of love and compassion for people unlike I ever had before." Read how happy they had become. This is what religion seems to fear.
Matthew 25:46:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and THEY all shall haveone shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever (age).
11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power
Hellfire? How would the Gentiles back then understood the above verses as talking about an after death experience in fiery torment when their apostle never once taught, preached, or warned of hell?
Many believers today act as though the converts of Paul walked around with a pocket New Testament with the words of Christ in red. These Gentile believers did not walk around with any of the synoptic gospels. How would Gentiles read 2nd Thessalonians and even assume Paul was talking about an after death experience inside of a chapter that made no mention of an after death experience? How would they even come up with hellfire torment in an afterlife? Instead of trying to read answers into the passage is to simply read the passage itself and notice that it does not teach the religious nonsense we hear in churches today.
2nd Thessalonians is seen as being the ONLY verse where Paul supposedly preached hell in the afterlife, but again, how would the Gentiles know that Paul was talking about an after death experience in a place he never talked about before?
Look at the context:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels
Who are the “you” and “them” being addressed? South Africa? New Zealand? United States? Great Britain? The verses were not even addressing you. Quit reading “you” into verses not addressing you. The Thessalonians are clearly not being troubled today. The only ones who trouble us today are religious people. Persecution comes from religious people. Tell the religious community that you believe in pure grace and see what happens. Tell religious people that you do not believe in the religious hellfire forever and see what happens. Tell sinning people that they are forgiven and watch the religious hell break loose.
There is NOTHING in 2nd Thessalonians 1 about an after death“destruction from the presence of the Lord.” This destruction is upon planet earth and not some never ending destruction that one feels and experiences forever. The KJV translated aionion as “everlasting” as though destruction can somehow keep going. Destruction was never said to be an after death experience but something in their lifetime. I prefer the Young’s Literal Bible:
9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength
It was the “you” Thessalonians being troubled, and it was the “them” Thessalonians being addressed. I do not picture 2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9 as being the man/lady telling me to take my gospel and shove it as a way to comfort myself saying, “Wow! God will get them for that one.” I heard one pastor on TV who talked about someone he was sharing his "version" of the gospel to and said to that person, "Go to hell and see if I care" (exact words). That's the problem, you will discover a lack of "care" in how they talk about others even though they claim to care the most.
Now religion takes the words “from the presence of the Lord” (verse 9) and will say that it means in hell. Really? This comes from a shallow and careless view of scripture. If “from the presence of the Lord” means hellfire or even annihilationism then what shall we do with every other verses that uses the EXACT same phrase?
8 And they heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LordGod amongst the trees of the garden.
Adam and Eve sent themselves to hellfire? They annihilated themselves in Genesis 3? Remember, religion claims that away from the presence of the Lord would have to be in hell because God's presence is in heaven, so where do you see hellfire in Genesis 3?
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
Cain sent himself to hellfire? Cain annihilated himself in Genesis 4?
12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.
7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the Lord, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
Religion tells us that this so-called spirit being called Satan has free access into heaven and they use Job 1:12 and 2:7 as supposed proof. The “presence of the Lord” was only here on planet earth and not some outer dimension. Every time the words “from the presence of the Lord” was used was here on planet earth and never a reference to heaven. The previous verse states that this Satan was going to and fro on planet earth but religion says that Satan “presenting himself before the Lord” (2:1) meant that he went to heaven to have a chit-chat with God. Look at 2:6:
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
The sons of God went to present themselves and the accuser joined them. Does presenting themselves before the Lord mean that they went to heaven? If yes, then what do we do with Joshua 24:1 that reads:
And Joshua gathered all the tribes of Israel to Shechem, and called for the elders of Israel, and for their heads, and for their judges, and for their officers; and they presented themselves before God.
How about 1st Samuel 10:19 that reads:
19 And ye have this day rejected your God, who himself saved you out of all your adversities and your tribulations; and ye have said unto him, Nay, but set a king over us. Now therefore present yourselves before the Lordby your tribes, and by your thousands.
I doubt anyone reading those verses view it as going to heaven. I’ve learned to question anything religion has to say.
Let's continue looking at the words, "from the presence of the Lord" to see that it referred only to here on planet earth:
3 But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the Lord.
10 Then were the men exceedingly afraid, and said unto him. Why hast thou done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of the Lord, because he had told them.
Jonah sent himself to hellfire? Jonah annihilated himself in chapter 1? Jonah ran out of heaven into hellfire?
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
After death experience? Hellfire? Annihilationism? Going to heaven in Acts 3? No, the times of refreshing was on planet earth to the living.
Now look again at 2nd Thessalonians 1:9 and tell me how “from the presence of the Lord” now means an after death experience in hellfire or annihilationism:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power
Do you see how contradictory religion can be? The "from the presence of the Lord" never meant in hell away from God who is in heaven.
Religion tries to argue it this way, “Heaven is the presence of the Lord and hell is away from the presence of the Lord” and nobody questions religion on that nonsense. I could quote the verse in Psalm 139, "If I make my bed in hell behold thou art there" and that does not sound like an absence from the presence of the Lord in hell if I were to play the same word game that religion does.
The next time religion tells you that hell is "away from the presence of the Lord" then quote their other so-called hell proof text in Revelation 14:10 and ask them, "Then why does the verse in Revelation 14:10 say it is in the presence of the Lord"? Watch them invent an answer that does not come from the context or in scripture period.
Religion tries to argue it this way, “Heaven is the presence of the Lord and hell is away from the presence of the Lord” and nobody questions religion on that nonsense. I could quote the verse in Psalm 139, "If I make my bed in hell behold thou art there" and that does not sound like an absence from the presence of the Lord in hell if I were to play the same word game that religion does.
Do you honestly believe "from the presence of the Lord" is in hell where God is supposedly absent? If so, please explain your other so-called hell proof text in Revelation 14:10:
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb
If hell is away from the presence of the Lord then what do we do with the above verse that you claim is hellfire that clearly is "in the presence of the Lamb/angels"? I already talked in a previous blog about Revelation 14:10 and the redeeming Lamb. It was upon planet earth and not an after death experience. Such people would have no rest day or night. Remember, religion says that there is no day or night in hell so then where do you have day and night? It is called earth. Nobody is said to be dying here. It is figurative language that religion tries to make literal. Try finding anyone dying in the context of Revelation 14 and then being sent to this so-called torture chamber. Religion is insane.
If hell is away from the presence of the Lord then what do we do with the above verse that you claim is hellfire that clearly is "in the presence of the Lamb/angels"? I already talked in a previous blog about Revelation 14:10 and the redeeming Lamb. It was upon planet earth and not an after death experience. Such people would have no rest day or night. Remember, religion says that there is no day or night in hell so then where do you have day and night? It is called earth. Nobody is said to be dying here. It is figurative language that religion tries to make literal. Try finding anyone dying in the context of Revelation 14 and then being sent to this so-called torture chamber. Religion is insane.
The next time religion tells you that hell is "away from the presence of the Lord" then quote their other so-called hell proof text in Revelation 14:10 and ask them, "Then why does the verse in Revelation 14:10 say it is in the presence of the Lord"? Watch them invent an answer that does not come from the context or in scripture period.
Not too many religious people are willing to question religion. This is why ‘free thinkers’ are condemned. This is why I do not care for manipulative guilt and fear loving religion. From the presence of the Lord never implied an after death experience. It was a reference to here on planet earth.
Reread the above verses again and see it for yourself. 2ndThessalonians 1 was not talking about an after death destruction from the presence of the Lord as you better reread it. If you still will claim it is hell in the afterlife then only you are inserting words into the context that are not there. Only you will have to twist the phrase, "from the presence of the Lord" to suit your brand of religion and that is deceitful.
Reread the above verses again and see it for yourself. 2ndThessalonians 1 was not talking about an after death destruction from the presence of the Lord as you better reread it. If you still will claim it is hell in the afterlife then only you are inserting words into the context that are not there. Only you will have to twist the phrase, "from the presence of the Lord" to suit your brand of religion and that is deceitful.
There is no after death talk for unbelievers in 2ndThessalonians 1:9. There is no hellfire in the afterlife taught in 2nd Thessalonians 1:9. From the presence of the Lord is not banishment from heaven where one is consigned to hellfire in some outer dimension in 2nd Thessalonians 1:9. All the nonsense we hear from religion is read back into 2ndThessalonians 1:9.
Paul was assuring the Thessalonians to hang in there as it would not be that much longer. Paul was not saying, “Do not worry. Death is coming and you will be in the presence of the Lord in heaven and those who are doing terrible things to you will be forever punished in hellfire from the presence of the Lord.”
Do you honestly believe that recompense for troubling others is never ending torment in a literal fire? The verse does not teach that. These trouble makers would be recompensed and not forever being recompensed as that is not justice but cruel. It was only that the oppression would cease. From the presence of the Lord was never an after death experience. We are dealing with those troubling the Thessalonians and not hearing a sermon in how God will kill and fry every unbeliever upon this planet.
Do you honestly believe that recompense for troubling others is never ending torment in a literal fire? The verse does not teach that. These trouble makers would be recompensed and not forever being recompensed as that is not justice but cruel. It was only that the oppression would cease. From the presence of the Lord was never an after death experience. We are dealing with those troubling the Thessalonians and not hearing a sermon in how God will kill and fry every unbeliever upon this planet.
Do you believe that God recompensing tribulation is reserved for them after they die and that we somehow should take comfort in that thought? Does it bring comfort to you to somehow think that those who persecute you will be fried forever? Are you that infantile that you would say, "Good! That's what they get for calling me names"? Only a cold and calloused “god” can produced cold and calloused people. Are you cold and calloused? Maybe it is time to send your god to that hell.
One thing that I have learned is that those who talk about hell the loudest are those who lack compassion, patience, kindness, assurance, and love. Hotter the hell the angrier the person. Read the Youtube comments on hell and try finding the love and compassion. Then be sure to read the experiences of those who came to see the love of God and the "hell-less" (no hellfire forever) view and how they were transformed. Not transformed into, "Excellent! What sin can I do today?" but rather, "I have a heart full of love and compassion for people unlike I ever had before." Read how happy they had become. This is what religion seems to fear.
A mindset full of hell is a heart empty of love. Just watch hellish videos. Watch how some lie about hell claiming it is in the sun, center of the earth, in a volcano. Listen to them lie that a microphone placed at the ocean floor heard the screams of those in hell. Watch the near death experiences that are never consistent with each other where some have claimed demons having homosexual sex with people but these people have the nerve to claim that their "god" is love???
Watch the comments hellfire believers leave. Read their comments on those who were homosexuals and have died and see if you can find love and compassion. Read their comments on the recent suicide of Robin Williams. Look for their compassion and love and you will notice the absence of Jesus Christ. You will see how a mindset full of hell is a heart empty of love. Watch how they react when you disagree with them and notice their so-called concern for your eternity is replaced by name calling and harsh words. No wonder they hate the God of unconditional love because that pours cold water on their hell.
It never fails that the hotter the one makes hell the angrier that person tends to be. Hotter the hell the less compassion and love you actually will find. They claim their screaming about hell is their compassion to reach and wake up others, so can we only guess the apostle Paul lacked compassion because he never once screamed such a message?
Do you honestly believe God recompenses people who do not like you and persecutes you with never ending pain and punishment? Are you longing for the day that such people will be forever punished in flames? If you said yes then you are a stranger to grace and do not know Him. Consider the religious "god" and his so-called love and ask yourself, "Can I love better than Him? Is his love beyond comprehension?" Be honest!
Gehenna:
Who goes to Gehenna? Answer that question really quick to yourself. Who do you say will go to Gehenna? Religion says those who reject the gospel of grace go to this Gehenna (hell). It is interesting to note that every verse where Gehenna was quoted was never stated as the fate of those who do not believe the death, burial, and resurrection gospel. NOT ONCE!!! No verse says, "If you do not believe then you go to hell when you die."
People think the word “perish” refers to an after death experience. Religion takes the word “perish” and will read that word as though one is forever in a state of perishing in flames of Gehenna but somehow you are preserved from actual perishing. I guess you can perish without actually perishing??? Just take the time to look up the word “perish” in a Strong’s Concordance to rule that religious foolishness out. Perish often means death and not a death where one does not die. I do not agree with annihilationism but they are the best at exposing/refuting this religious nonsense that "perish" means living on in some hellfire forever.
Look up the word Gehenna in a Strong’s Concordance and notice carefully that one is never said to go to this place for rejecting the gospel of grace. Gehenna was for the one who said, “Thou fool” as being in danger of it (Matthew 5:22) but that was not referring to an after death experience. It was not "thou fool" and later when you die is to go to Gehenna for such words, but rather the living could be cast into this Gehenna or dead bodies. Gehenna was only spoken to the living and never a warning to those who have died. No dead person was threatened with resurrection into Gehenna.
One is to cut off the members of the body that offend to not be cast “whole BODY” (physical death or perishing) in Gehenna (Matthew 5:29-30) that was not an after death experience. What does religion do? They claim that you remove anything (cut that limb or precious sin off) that hinders you from believing the gospel. That is simply a desperate attempt to read their religion into a passage that does not preach their religion. There was no death, burial, and resurrection gospel in Matthew 5.
I fail to find Gehenna once used as a warning for rejecting the death, burial, and resurrection gospel. I fail to find the Gentiles warned once of this Gehenna. I only find this Gehenna to be speaking to the land of the living (geographically limited too) and never an after death experience. Nobody is raised to go to Gehenna. Body and soul were said to be cast into Gehenna. Soul was defined as the “breath of life” that gave life to the body. This is a complete physical destruction and not some spiritual frying dimension awaiting people.
This Gehenna was specifically addressing works and never a failure to believe the gospel of grace, so why does religion preach Gehenna as an after death fate to those who do not believe? If you are going to claim that Gehenna is reserved for those who rejected the death, burial, and resurrection gospel then show me one verse??? All you can do is tie verses from all over the place and read your religion back into them. I might as well teach suicide by saying, “Judas went out and hung himself, and Jesus said to go and do likewise, and what you do, do quickly, and my peace I leave with you.”
Gehenna never referred to an after death experience. Look up the word “fire” in the synoptic gospels and you will find that it too never referred to an after death experience. It was always talked about on planet earth and not what the dead made conscious in some spiritual dimension would experience. You will find that religion will read their assumptions into verses that use the word “fire.” The ONLY verse religion quotes that directly deals with a “conscious” man in flames is Luke 16 but I have addressed that in my blog titled THE LAKE OF FIRE!!!
Matthew 25:46:
Religion loves to quote Matthew 25:31-46 as proof for their after death hell. OK, where is the death, burial, and resurrection gospel in Matthew 25? Where was the gospel at all in Matthew 25? Can you find the gospel your church proclaims in gospel tracts stated in Matthew 25? Where was the death, burial, and resurrection gospel proclaimed anywhere in the book of Matthew? The passage was not a rejection of the gospel but dealt with how a people were treated. The context comes just before religions isolated proof text that gives a big clue as to what was going on here:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
I fail to see the rejection of the gospel. Religion ALWAYS has to read words/ideas into a passage that was NOWHERE taught or stated in order to blind the minds of the people. The passage was dealing with the judgment of the LIVING NATIONS and not the judgment of the dead people of all who ever lived.
Religion is quick to quote verse 33 as believers versus unbelievers:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Gentiles were NEVER called sheep once. Religion seeks to twist the verse in John 10 about “other sheep” as somehow being Gentiles. Gentiles were never called sheep once, as the “other sheep” spoke of the gathering together of the “two sticks” (two houses of Israel that were divided) as talked about in the OT. Look at Ezekiel 37:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23 Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and THEY all shall haveone shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Israel divided and was to be joined back together as one. Isaiah 8:14 reads:
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
The two houses of Israel were the House of Judah and the House of Joseph. Jesus saying “other sheep I have” was not a reference to bringing in the Gentiles as the Jews would not have understood Him to imply that at all. Jesus came for the lost “sheep” of the HOUSE of Israel (Matthew 15:24) and the above verses were about the "house of Israel" (see Ezekiel 37:16 that says "house of Israel" again). Gentiles were never called sheep (look it up).
In Matthew 25, we have the “sheep” on the right and the “goats” on the left. According to religion, the sheep are those who have believed the death, burial, and resurrection gospel but the “goats” on the left are those who have rejected the gospel of grace inside a book (Matthew) that did not preach the death, burial, resurrection gospel once. Jesus did not start preaching His death until His final year in ministry that many fail to realize. This is why the disciples did not understand what Jesus was talking about and even Peter rebuked Jesus for saying that He would die.
The context defines who the sheep/goats are in verse 32:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
The nations (of the living) are gathered and not John Smith who died in 1867 for not believing the gospel.
Some argue the word “nations” is often used to refer to Gentiles and that is true. I think it is clear that we are dealing with all nations and not all Gentiles in the above verse. The chapter leading up to this verse uses the Greek word “ethnos” to speak of nations, as chapter 24:7, 9 reads:
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nationsfor my name's sake.
Matthew 25 deals with the judgment of these nations. We are dealing with the land of the living and not dead people raised for the judgment of nations. We are on planet earth here in Matthew 25 and not some after death experience. This is not a resurrection of the dead as religion reads way too much into this chapter.
If you read Matthew 25 as literal then you will have some serious problems explaining the “cup of cold water, visiting prisons, sick, needing clothes” as literal as well. Does your religion teach that you go to hell for not visiting those in prison? If you say that "visiting people in prison" is not literal then why should I believe verse 46 is literal banishment in some place called hell in some afterlife when it never says that? Religion is notorious for such shoddy handling of the bible they claim to love.
The cup of cold water, visiting those in prison, and caring for the sick is a description of someone clearly in need. We are addressing the judgment of nations and there was a nation in need of help that we will discuss shortly.
If you read Matthew 25 as literal then you will have some serious problems explaining the “cup of cold water, visiting prisons, sick, needing clothes” as literal as well. Does your religion teach that you go to hell for not visiting those in prison? If you say that "visiting people in prison" is not literal then why should I believe verse 46 is literal banishment in some place called hell in some afterlife when it never says that? Religion is notorious for such shoddy handling of the bible they claim to love.
The cup of cold water, visiting those in prison, and caring for the sick is a description of someone clearly in need. We are addressing the judgment of nations and there was a nation in need of help that we will discuss shortly.
What we have is a figurative gathering of nations and it is the nations on the left who experience the age-during punishment while those on the right experience the age-during life. I know your KJV says, “everlasting” but if it is everlasting then where is this punishment or life being experienced? This is why you have to make aionios (translated erroneously as everlasting) to mean that you die and then go on to this punishment/life when it never said that. One enters age-during life and the other age-during punishment but where do you see it as outside the realm of life? Where do you see people floating off to heaven and others off to hell? Where do you see it describing everyone who had ever lived? The ones who go to aionios punishment are the nations in the context and not Fred Johnson who told pastor John Doe that he was not interested in the death, burial, and resurrection gospel tract. The nations are those in the context.
Where are those "nations" in the context today experiencing this punishment? Only religion gives you that destination as they see it meaning some other place than earth (heaven/hell) even though we never departed from planet earth in Matthew 25 once. The passage never stated anywhere that the punishment or the life is in the afterlife in some other dimension at all. Your religion added words to the verse nowhere stated. The passage never states this punishment outside the realms of life or this planet. It simply is the nations gathered will depart (go), as they are separated from the sheep. To say, "One day they will die and go to hellfire forever" is reading words into the passage.
Where are those "nations" in the context today experiencing this punishment? Only religion gives you that destination as they see it meaning some other place than earth (heaven/hell) even though we never departed from planet earth in Matthew 25 once. The passage never stated anywhere that the punishment or the life is in the afterlife in some other dimension at all. Your religion added words to the verse nowhere stated. The passage never states this punishment outside the realms of life or this planet. It simply is the nations gathered will depart (go), as they are separated from the sheep. To say, "One day they will die and go to hellfire forever" is reading words into the passage.
Where do you see an after death experience in Matthew 25? Where is heaven in the afterlife even mentioned once? You were taught the religious gospel of two choices (heaven or hell). You were made to see words in Matthew 25 that simply are not there. Nobody here is dying and going to some awful place. Nobody here is said to be dying and going to some wonderful place either. We are not talking about John Smith who rejected the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection one day dying and waking up spiritually in flames of agony forever nonsense. We are simply talking about one having age-during life. A quality of life.
Age-during life is said to be knowing Him (John 17:3). Age-during life is not immortality. This “eternal (age-during) life” speaks to the quality and “immortality” speaks to the quantity. Romans 2:7 speaks of "eternal life" (age-during) and "immortality" inside of the same verse. We do not put on "aionios life" but we do put immortality. Eternal (age-during) is a gift that was to be enjoyed but immortality is the result of what Jesus accomplished at Calvary and His resurrection on the behalf of all. In Adam all die but in Christ (the same) all shall be made alive.
Age-during life is said to be knowing Him (John 17:3). Age-during life is not immortality. This “eternal (age-during) life” speaks to the quality and “immortality” speaks to the quantity. Romans 2:7 speaks of "eternal life" (age-during) and "immortality" inside of the same verse. We do not put on "aionios life" but we do put immortality. Eternal (age-during) is a gift that was to be enjoyed but immortality is the result of what Jesus accomplished at Calvary and His resurrection on the behalf of all. In Adam all die but in Christ (the same) all shall be made alive.
If you are going to be honest with Matthew 25:46 then you will have to admit that those who go into “everlasting (age-during) punishment” are those who did not give a cold cup of water and so on. Religion simply tries to get around the obvious. Some will tell you that if your faith is genuine then it will be seen in works as the supposed reason for verses 42-44 that again was not a passage dealing with believing the gospel of the death, burial, and resurrection but rather the treatment of a nation (sheep) that we will soon see.
Some do see the context of Matthew 25 as a lack of mercy being extended to others as a reason for God torturing them forever. So are we to assume that God’s mercy is conditioned upon our mercy? We are to assume that God's mercy will fail those who fail to demonstrate mercy? God's mercy and love is only conditioned upon you demonstrating it to others? God’s mercy and love fails?
Some do see the context of Matthew 25 as a lack of mercy being extended to others as a reason for God torturing them forever. So are we to assume that God’s mercy is conditioned upon our mercy? We are to assume that God's mercy will fail those who fail to demonstrate mercy? God's mercy and love is only conditioned upon you demonstrating it to others? God’s mercy and love fails?
These people forever cannot be corrected of what they have done but now and forever have to experience a merciless “god” in a place absent of his love and mercy for their temporary display of mercilessness? How does hell demonstrate love and mercy? If God is love then how is a hell created by God without loving and merciful hands? Good luck twisting that one with your Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde god of religion!
We are talking in Matthew 25 about nations “back then” and their treatment of Israel. Again, it is NATIONS we are talking about. We are dealing with how one treated Israel back then. The treatment of Israel can even be seen in Obadiah 1 and read these verses entirely:
11 In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that the strangers carried away captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.
12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.
15 For the day of the Lordis near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lordhath spoken it.
Obadiah is talking about those who did not stand with Israel. How they rejoiced at Judah and her destruction. How they spoke proudly of her distress as they have become as a stranger to her. Mathew 24 speaks of a coming destruction that I believe happened in 70ad and then Matthew 25 speaks of Jesus as a stranger and those (nations) who refused to give Him a cold cup of water, visit Him when He was in prison, did not give Him clothes that were needed, and did nothing for Him when He was sick. Again, this speaks of those nations that stood against Israel back then and they did nothing for her when she needed their help the most.
This is what Matthew 25 was specifically addressing at the end of the chapter. The goats were those who stood against them (Israel) and offered no help. How is this even you today??? Religion does not care about those verses but rather verse 46 that they twist to scare hell into people. Religion always quotes verse 46 to people and never the immediate context, why do you think? Sorry, verse 46 does not fit with your rejecting gospel and frying for it as taught by religion. It was dealing with the nations that stood against Israel as was in Obadiah.
After reading those verses in Obadiah, would you read that passage as an after death experience or judgment of nations? Are you going to read Matthew 25 as an after death experience or as the judgment of nations?
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'(Matthew 25:46 Young’s Literal Bible).
Ask yourself, who are the “these” being addressed in verse 46? Are the “these” referring to all of those who ever existed from the beginning of time? No, we are speaking of nations during a specific time in the context. Are nations going to hellfire and others are going to heaven? I think that is a silly question.
Ask yourself, who are the “these” being addressed in verse 46? Are they those who have rejected the death, burial, and resurrection gospel? The answer is no, but many teach the verse as referring to those who rejected the gospel. They see the verse as saying that the goats that rejected the gospel of grace go to hell and those sheep who have believed go to heaven. This is man-made nonsense called religion.
You will find Matthew 25:46 in the statement of faith found at most online church websites as proof of hell for those who reject "their" version of the gospel. It is found in almost every hell believing church website even though it was not preaching an after death hell. The context does not argue what they claim and yet they use that verse as some supposed after death experience for rejecting "their" gospel.
The age-during kolasis (punishment) would be seen in a form of chastening because “these” nations are punished for their treatment of Israel and never some rejection of the death, burial, and resurrection gospel. You can hold on to your hellfire forever in the afterlife and continue to argue words nowhere stated in Matthew 25 but I prefer remaining true to the context rather than religion.
We are so accustomed to hearing about an angry God who throws most people into some forever burning torture pit as such people cannot see Matthew 25:46 any other way.
The Greek word for “punishment” is Kolasis. Strong’s defines that word as:
correction, punishment, penalty
Why is it so hard to picture the correction of nations in Matthew 25? Why is it that we thrive on such horrific punishment that supposedly never can end? Why is it so hard to see figurative language or even figurative punishment? Does punishment always bring up physical pain in your mind? Could not the nations be deprived of something as a punishment? Does the religious "god" only deal in pain and disease in your thinking?
Also, why is it that religious people get so upset when you attack their precious hell? Why is it so hard for the religious mind to see Isaiah 26:9 as a possible reason for kolasis (correction/punishment):
Also, why is it that religious people get so upset when you attack their precious hell? Why is it so hard for the religious mind to see Isaiah 26:9 as a possible reason for kolasis (correction/punishment):
9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth,the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
What does hellfire forever of burning agony accomplish? How is that correction when nothing ever gets corrected? It is nothing more than teaching a sick twisted “god” who needs therapy and medication. Religion says that God “must” send people to this fire forever because He is just but no verse says that. I think it is rather what the religious heart desires, and seeing how "angry" they get when you pour cold water on their hell is proof. It is what religion calls justice and their god is nothing more than an invented golden calf.
Pure unending agony inside a flame is just? Set yourself on fire and tell me how billions of years of that is just. Just torch your index finger thoroughly and say, “Praise God for such wonderful justice as that!” Listen to what it is you are saying. We can and do demonstrate more love and compassion than the religious god. Atheists demonstrate a love far greater than the religious god and many of those who profess to be believers.
I had a discussion with a man at work this week on hell. I simply wanted to know if he could turn his back on his daughter if she was sent to this hell screaming, "Daddy! Help me please!" I asked him if he would go into hell and hug her and tell her how much he loves her if God gave him the chance and he said, "yes" to my question. I simply told him that his answer revealed that he could love his daughter more than the God who "sooooo loved the world." The religious "god" turns his back on people in hell and will never give a single person in hell a hug and say, "I love you." We can love more than the religious god. Let's stop protecting the god of religion. To hell with that god.
Really quick, religion says that those who argue "no hell" are simply appealing to your nice feelings. We make God so loving. Really? First of all, if we make God too loving then what does that say about your view of God? If we make Him too loving then your not too loving God is reduced to the level of man. This probably explains why most religious people struggle with the love of God. This is probably why people (unbelievers especially) can show more compassion and love than the "god" of religion.
Religion claiming that we appeal to the feelings in mankind is for us to argue back that religion will appeal to fear, guilt, or anything else emotional to keep people in bondage to their hellish doctrine. I hear nothing but exaggerated words concerning Dante's Inferno from hellfire lovers to "scare" hell into people, so who is using emotions to woo people over? I see them making God so unbelievably angry and practically foaming at the mouth. They appeal to the fearful emotions in man. I have challenged pastors on their hellish views and went toe to toe with them on their so-called proof texts, so we do not avoid scripture that they deceitfully claim and hopefully my blog proves that. I do appeal to love as love is far more powerful than fear. Love delivers one from fear. Fear has torment that is religions preferred choice of manipulation. Do I also appeal to reason? Sure, and so do my opponents as to why their "god" must be so cruel and vicious.
I personally witnessed more than one pastor now that has thrown out his belief in hell. I have seen lives transformed when they threw out hellfire. I have seen people come off medication when they threw out hell. Question: Can you quote anyone who became a believer in hellfire and this angry god nonsense who came off his/her meds? I doubt it. My goal is to get them off their meds and give the remaining quantity of their pills to their god.
Religion claiming that we appeal to the feelings in mankind is for us to argue back that religion will appeal to fear, guilt, or anything else emotional to keep people in bondage to their hellish doctrine. I hear nothing but exaggerated words concerning Dante's Inferno from hellfire lovers to "scare" hell into people, so who is using emotions to woo people over? I see them making God so unbelievably angry and practically foaming at the mouth. They appeal to the fearful emotions in man. I have challenged pastors on their hellish views and went toe to toe with them on their so-called proof texts, so we do not avoid scripture that they deceitfully claim and hopefully my blog proves that. I do appeal to love as love is far more powerful than fear. Love delivers one from fear. Fear has torment that is religions preferred choice of manipulation. Do I also appeal to reason? Sure, and so do my opponents as to why their "god" must be so cruel and vicious.
I personally witnessed more than one pastor now that has thrown out his belief in hell. I have seen lives transformed when they threw out hellfire. I have seen people come off medication when they threw out hell. Question: Can you quote anyone who became a believer in hellfire and this angry god nonsense who came off his/her meds? I doubt it. My goal is to get them off their meds and give the remaining quantity of their pills to their god.
When religion tells you that we are simply appealing to the sentiments in people then you need to stop and hear what they are appealing to in people with their hellish teachings. We preach love and they preach fear. Love reaches the heart and fear reaches the flesh. The flesh life reaps death as there is no life in it. We are not seeking to control people like religion does. In religion is bondage.
The one thing I do not understand is why people get so angry when you share the "no hell forever" view. You would think that they would love to hear such news and see if what you are saying is true. I have seen people get nervous when I started to challenge their hell beliefs and I was not even arguing as I refuse to argue. I get people who instantly will stop me and say, "I believe in hell and nothing you can say will change my mind, so I do not want to talk about it." Hell brings the worse out in people. People are afraid to challenge hell.
It is OK to find out if we are wrong especially on the very thing that has crippled the faith of so many. What if I am wrong about hell someone might ask me. Well, if hell is true then I will apologize to God saying, "Sorry God for making you so loving and kind. I am so sorry that many people went to bed weeping with pure joy of believing that you were too good to be true. Sorry for those I helped come off their medication due to their former belief in hell. Sorry for those who were able to lift up their hands in joy unspeakable crying, "My God, My God! Thank you that you have not forsaken me nor will ever forsake me!" Sorry for those I made love you as well as loving others more than before by telling them there is no hellfire in the afterlife of endless punishment. Sorry for saying your love and compassion fails not. Sorry for making them enjoy their existence. I am so sorry for giving people hope that I guess now religion rightfully robbed them of. Sorry for making them sleep better at night. So sorry for making your love beyond comprehension. Sorry, I never knew your love was so limited. I do have a question for you, is my son going to hell? If so, I like to go there forever to be with him. I want to hug him, love him, and do the things you cannot do yourself because I actually "so love" my son that I would like to comfort him the best I can since your love and compassion fails, but I can assure you that my love and compassion will not. I need to go there and personally apologize to my son that I was so wrong about your love and kindness and we both will spend eternity loving and comforting each other more than you ever could. I am surprised that someone as imperfect as me can demonstrate love and compassion far greater than my own creator. Even in your hell, I can demonstrate that." However, if hell is not real then what would you say to God about the monster you made out of Him? What would you say concerning those lives ruined with fear and anxiety? Think about that! Which shoes would you rather be in? The God of love or the god of endless pain and torture?
It is OK to find out if we are wrong especially on the very thing that has crippled the faith of so many. What if I am wrong about hell someone might ask me. Well, if hell is true then I will apologize to God saying, "Sorry God for making you so loving and kind. I am so sorry that many people went to bed weeping with pure joy of believing that you were too good to be true. Sorry for those I helped come off their medication due to their former belief in hell. Sorry for those who were able to lift up their hands in joy unspeakable crying, "My God, My God! Thank you that you have not forsaken me nor will ever forsake me!" Sorry for those I made love you as well as loving others more than before by telling them there is no hellfire in the afterlife of endless punishment. Sorry for saying your love and compassion fails not. Sorry for making them enjoy their existence. I am so sorry for giving people hope that I guess now religion rightfully robbed them of. Sorry for making them sleep better at night. So sorry for making your love beyond comprehension. Sorry, I never knew your love was so limited. I do have a question for you, is my son going to hell? If so, I like to go there forever to be with him. I want to hug him, love him, and do the things you cannot do yourself because I actually "so love" my son that I would like to comfort him the best I can since your love and compassion fails, but I can assure you that my love and compassion will not. I need to go there and personally apologize to my son that I was so wrong about your love and kindness and we both will spend eternity loving and comforting each other more than you ever could. I am surprised that someone as imperfect as me can demonstrate love and compassion far greater than my own creator. Even in your hell, I can demonstrate that." However, if hell is not real then what would you say to God about the monster you made out of Him? What would you say concerning those lives ruined with fear and anxiety? Think about that! Which shoes would you rather be in? The God of love or the god of endless pain and torture?
Would it really mess up religious people and their lives if they discovered that God was too good to be true? Would it ruin their sleep to know that God's love fails not? Would religious people leave heaven if they found God playing cards with a table full of men/women they knew were homosexuals in this life? I only mention homosexuals because they drive religious people to the point of boiling with their self-righteousness. Would they be just like the Pharisee who could not believe if Jesus were a true prophet would allow a prostitute to wash His feet with her hair and tears?
The first step in enjoying grace and love is getting away from religion and its lies. It is challenging everything you were taught. If challenging your hellish views produces fear where maybe what you are hearing is from the voice of the enemy that religion planted in your mind then you have been programmed by religion to be closed minded and entertain veils they call truth. Maybe a few more years of struggles will bring you to the point of finally questioning what you have been taught.
Only religion says that the devil will make you think there is no such thing as an eternal hellfire of endless pain and punishment but those words comes from ZERO verses of scripture. No verse shares anyone said to be deceived for not believing in some after death hellfire but it does not stop religion from continuously inventing new verses to back their nonsense. What if it is the devil telling you the lies about an endless hell? The devil is a deceiver and welcome to religion that is his pulpit.
Religion will do whatever to scare you from listening and challenging what you were taught. If Paul was resurrected and preached a "no hellfire forever" message then I am sure that religion would reject him too. Would you hear Paul or would you listen to your religion that might say, "Do not listen to that man. He is not the real resurrected Paul but a devil in sheep's clothing"?
This is what religion does to people. It makes them fearful of anyone who teaches anything other than what "they" teach. It is true in most religions. If religion can plant fear into you then they own you. If you start to challenge religion then notice that they will preach a fearful message to you to win you back. This is how they keep you bound and blind. They do not want grace and the unconditional love of God proclaimed because you cannot manipulate people with such things.
Love frees but fear binds. Are you free? Are you enjoying life (abundant life)?
Only religion says that the devil will make you think there is no such thing as an eternal hellfire of endless pain and punishment but those words comes from ZERO verses of scripture. No verse shares anyone said to be deceived for not believing in some after death hellfire but it does not stop religion from continuously inventing new verses to back their nonsense. What if it is the devil telling you the lies about an endless hell? The devil is a deceiver and welcome to religion that is his pulpit.
Religion will do whatever to scare you from listening and challenging what you were taught. If Paul was resurrected and preached a "no hellfire forever" message then I am sure that religion would reject him too. Would you hear Paul or would you listen to your religion that might say, "Do not listen to that man. He is not the real resurrected Paul but a devil in sheep's clothing"?
This is what religion does to people. It makes them fearful of anyone who teaches anything other than what "they" teach. It is true in most religions. If religion can plant fear into you then they own you. If you start to challenge religion then notice that they will preach a fearful message to you to win you back. This is how they keep you bound and blind. They do not want grace and the unconditional love of God proclaimed because you cannot manipulate people with such things.
Love frees but fear binds. Are you free? Are you enjoying life (abundant life)?
Get rid of religion!
For further reading:
Video:
A poem:
Can you really imagine a God of love….
Sitting in heaven, relaxing above…..
And, deciding, one day….. to make up a place….
Void of His love and His mercy and grace?!?
Can you really believe it?!?! That, Our best friend…..
Could make up a torture that never would end…
Only a Father who’d gone insane……
Could punish His children in endless pain!!!
Religionists carefully formed a dark plan…
In order to scare and control every man…
A story, quite gory..to keep us in line….
I guess they forgot..we can still use our mind!
We cannot be fooled by their demonic spirit…
Our father is speaking..and, YES! We can hear it!
He’s pouring out His revelation of LOVE…..
Where nothing below….. and nothing above…..
Could ever, no NEVER, not once separate us….
His Nature is LOVE… there’s no way He could hate us…
Or banish us…. torture or cook us forever….
His LOVE and his mercy won’t fail us… NOT EVER!!!
Sitting in heaven, relaxing above…..
And, deciding, one day….. to make up a place….
Void of His love and His mercy and grace?!?
Can you really believe it?!?! That, Our best friend…..
Could make up a torture that never would end…
Only a Father who’d gone insane……
Could punish His children in endless pain!!!
Religionists carefully formed a dark plan…
In order to scare and control every man…
A story, quite gory..to keep us in line….
I guess they forgot..we can still use our mind!
We cannot be fooled by their demonic spirit…
Our father is speaking..and, YES! We can hear it!
He’s pouring out His revelation of LOVE…..
Where nothing below….. and nothing above…..
Could ever, no NEVER, not once separate us….
His Nature is LOVE… there’s no way He could hate us…
Or banish us…. torture or cook us forever….
His LOVE and his mercy won’t fail us… NOT EVER!!!