I once held to the teachings of annihilationism. I first believed in a literal hellfire after death but then became a believer in annihilationism after reading a book by Edward William Fudge titled, 'The Fire That Consumes.' I later had problems with the beliefs of annihilationism because I felt I still was reading into verses words not stated.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every kneeshould bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
7 O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
8 The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
20 Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. (Psalm 22:27-29).
A parallel in my opinion to the above would be Revelation 5:13:
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
I believe I shared enough. The soul that sins shall die (in Adam all die) as Adam was the living soul but Jesus the quickening spirit. In Adam all die but in Christ all shall be made alive. Christ died for all and all died. If we died with Him then we shall live with Him. If we were planted in the likeness of His death (we all were 2nd Cor. 5:14) then we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection. The bible never conditioned resurrection upon believing it. The resurrection is the direct result of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on behalf of all.
I was preparing a blog on this subject but when I reached my 28th page on Microsoft Word was when I decided to stop because I only scratched the surface. I decided now to make only a few points in comparison to what I had tried to write concerning my former beliefs as this will be more for the undecided than those convinced of its teachings.
What you are about to read will appear that I am defending Universalism rather than refuting annihilationism. To read this blog as a defense of Universalism will cause some (hellfire lovers or those taught to be closed minded when they hear certain words) to miss out on what I am actually trying to get across here. This blog is to show that there will be a universal resurrection and not a resurrection unto extinction. People will come up with such an opinion of me due to the fact that I do not believe in an after death Gehenna as no verse speaks of an after death Gehenna. To them, since I do not believe in a literal hellfire torture in some after death underworld and do not believe in annihilationism then I must be promoting Universalism. I admit that my beliefs are very universalistic and will obviously show in this blog but I never limit myself to a certain "ism" (Universal-ism...Calvin-ism...Arminian-ism...Lutheran-ism...Catholic-ism, Supralapsarian-ism, and so on) being taught today. This is why people have a hard time boxing me into a specific man-made theological system. If one does box me into a specific "ism" is when they will discover that my beliefs are inconsistent to everything that "ism" promotes. I do not limit myself.
Again, this blog is to show that there will be a universal resurrection and not a resurrection unto annihilation. One does not have to agree with everything I say here but do know that there will be a universal resurrection as "all" will be made alive. You might be thinking "alive where?" but the point of this blog is that they will be made "alive" and not annihilated, so do not miss the forest for the trees. Again, this blog is simply for the undecided.
Again, this blog is to show that there will be a universal resurrection and not a resurrection unto annihilation. One does not have to agree with everything I say here but do know that there will be a universal resurrection as "all" will be made alive. You might be thinking "alive where?" but the point of this blog is that they will be made "alive" and not annihilated, so do not miss the forest for the trees. Again, this blog is simply for the undecided.
Look at 2nd Corinthians 5:14:
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead
Do you believe Christ died for all? If so, do you believe the same “all” are dead? If no, then you have to twist the above verse. The above is universal where "all" have died in that death died for all."If one died for all" (He did) then "were ALL dead."
No verse says that you become dead when you believe. Many read Romans 6 as applying to believers only about being “baptized into His death.” Many Baptists seek to twist Romans 6 to refer to water baptism in a book that contains no water. 2nd Corinthians 5:14 are us baptized into His death. Romans 6:5 reads:
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection
Verse 5 is identical teaching to 2nd Corinthians 5:14-15. Now religion will focus on the word “if” and will tell you that it is conditional, but they forget 2nd Corinthians 5:14, “IF one died for all” that one can clearly see was not a conditional if. People fail to see how Paul often used the word “if” not to stress a condition but a reality. If Christ did die for all then the results is that we all have died. It is clear that “all” have been planted together in the likeness of His death” because to deny that is to deny 2nd Corinthians 5:14. Notice that the same all will be in the “likeness of His resurrection.”
Paul clearly said that “if one died for all, then were ALL dead.” Now look at 2ndTimothy 2:11:
11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him
Again, the word “if” is not a conditional statement as 2nd Corinthians 5:14 proved that. Who died with Him? All. Who are those that shall live with Him? The “all” who died in Him. The living with Him does not imply reigning or not being subdued as other scriptures talk about. I am not here to talk about that but only that all will be made alive in Christ. We all share in the benefits of His death and resurrection.
Look at 1st Corinthians 15:22
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Religion attempts to change the word order to, “all in Adam die, all in Christ made alive” but the verse does not say that. Religion wants you to think that you have to “get” (works mentality) into Christ and then you shall be made alive. No, “in Adam all die, in Christ the same all are made alive.” You were dead in trespasses and sins but you were quickened according to Ephesians 2.
Did you do any works to get "in Adam"? Did you believe to get "in Adam"? NO! You are twisting and reading into the above verse to say, "We did not get into Adam by our freewill/choice, but we get into Christ by our freewill/choice." People claim you must "get into Christ" because God will not violate your freewill but I never hear those same people complain that we "all" are in Adam (condemned, die) apart from our freewill. Religion does not object to the doom and gloom upon all of the first Adam apart from our choice but hates the obviously second half of the verse that Christ undid what the first Adam had done to the entire human race apart from choice. Religion makes the first half of the verse as unconditionally applying to all mankind but conditions the second half of the verse that reads identical to the verse half of the verse as conditioned upon choice. Whose playing games now?
Did you do any works to get "in Adam"? Did you believe to get "in Adam"? NO! You are twisting and reading into the above verse to say, "We did not get into Adam by our freewill/choice, but we get into Christ by our freewill/choice." People claim you must "get into Christ" because God will not violate your freewill but I never hear those same people complain that we "all" are in Adam (condemned, die) apart from our freewill. Religion does not object to the doom and gloom upon all of the first Adam apart from our choice but hates the obviously second half of the verse that Christ undid what the first Adam had done to the entire human race apart from choice. Religion makes the first half of the verse as unconditionally applying to all mankind but conditions the second half of the verse that reads identical to the verse half of the verse as conditioned upon choice. Whose playing games now?
Religion attempts (especially annihilationists) to make immortality conditioned upon believing rather the result of the resurrection. Death is the only thing said to be destroyed in 1st Corinthians 15:26 and never those "made alive" including the enemies "subdued" (verse 28). However, it clearly says that “all will be made alive.” The "all" made alive is clearly putting on the immortality. In Adam all die, but in Christ all are made alive (immortality). Look at 1stCorinthians 15:45:
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living SOUL; the last Adam was made a quickening SPIRIT.
The above verse is important because annihilationists love to argue, “wages of sin is death…the SOUL that sins shall die” as they argue for extinction of unbelievers. Those verses they quote is exactly what Paul was saying, “In Adam ALL die.” The SOUL that sins shall die according to Ezekiel as that is the Adam who was made a living SOUL, as we die in him. Adam the living "soul" we all die, but in Christ the quickening spirit we all live. Immortality is to all.
Nowhere does scripture state that believing is how our sin wages get paid. Religion makes you believe that Jesus hands you a blank check and all you need to do is sign your name and the check is now yours to enjoy. People fail to see that the name on the check is “ALL” as it was never a blank check.
Comparing 1st Corinthians 15:22 with verse 45 makes it clear that one will made alive and not fried or annihilated. We were dead in sin but we were quickened in Christ. The soul that sins shall die and Adam being the living soul that we are all a part of die, but Christ who is the quickening spirit brings life to the same all.
The "second death" is something that scares many believers. Nowhere do we read anywhere of a second death except in Revelation. People read Revelation as a future literal event in a book full of symbols and figurative language. I have heard a Baptist pastor claim that he had a near death experience and saw the streets of gold. Really? The gold streets were figurative and it also was a city described here on planet earth and not some heaven out yonder.
I believe the new heavens and the new earth were just as figurative as was everything else seen in it. It was no different than any other vision John had that was full of symbols. It is only religion who says, "OK, this part is literal...this part figurative...this part symbolic." This is why nobody agrees on what they read in Revelation.
Try reading Revelation as a revealing of the gospel of grace instead of a full blown nuclear war. Instead of seeing everything as literal is to try to see it as Christ and the gospel as victorious in the end.
People read the “wrath of the Lamb” in Revelation 6 and assume a very angry Lamb literally tormenting people with physical pain. Wrath is simply an intense passion or emotion. Remember, God told us to put off our wrath because it was described as a sin of the flesh. God's wrath is not our wrath but we tend to picture God's wrath as an intense temper tantrum that goes beyond ours.
The Lamb is ONLY associated with redemption and not terror and punishment. Look up all the references to Lamb and notice how Religion changes the Lamb of Revelation 6 from an image of a gentle Lamb into a vicious beast on the attack.
I do not read Revelation literally at all. I rarely if ever read the Book of Revelation. If John did not understand everything he was seeing then nothing today will make the book completely clear. What I do see when reading Revelation is quite a colorful story of what the gospel accomplished. I will be brief as possible hoping not to confuse anyone.
The wrath of the Lamb is a picture of His passion toward others. Those “kings of the earth” and others trying to hide from this Lamb where you can read how they they cried out for the mountains to fall upon them was imagery to me of darkness seeking to hide from the light that we read about in John 3. The light came but darkness comprehended it not. Men hide from the light lest their deeds be exposed.
This was not a real story unless you believe a literal lamb was climbing up a mountain side seeking to hurt people. Look for a message in it about the pursuing Lamb of redemption who shed His blood for their sins. Revelation does repeat more than once, "The Lamb slain."
This was not a real story unless you believe a literal lamb was climbing up a mountain side seeking to hurt people. Look for a message in it about the pursuing Lamb of redemption who shed His blood for their sins. Revelation does repeat more than once, "The Lamb slain."
See my video on the Loving Wrath of God:
I see the “kings of the earth” hiding in Revelation 6. I see the same “kings of the earth” making war in chapter 19. I see the same “kings of the earth” in chapter 21:24 bringing “honor and glory” into the city that was only pictured upon planet earth. Religion wants to see only a literal war but I see enemies who were previously fighting now subdued. I see a story about Death riding a horse and the Beast who was figurative being brought down by the gospel. I see death defeated that was the long reigning champion due to sin (wages of sin is death). I see enemies subdued. Paul said in 1stCorinthians 15 that death would be destroyed but enemies “subdued.” Only annihilationists see “subdued” as destroyed from existence that simply amazes me. They were "made alive" again to be put to death again???
We read about the figurative lake of fire that is called the “second death.” I call it figurative because most things thrown into it are figurative (no literal beast, no literal false prophet with 2 horns, no literal death and hades cast into it).
What is the second death? Annihilationists claim that it is when one is resurrected but dies again that makes no sense. I find it strange that the second death is made to be literal by annihilationists inside book full of symbolic/figurative language. I find no mention of two deaths anywhere taught in the OT. I never found it taught in any of the teachings of Paul or in the teachings of Jesus as to this dying twice. Annihilationists focus on "perish" and "destruction" to refer somehow to one being forever annihilated but those words always precede the resurrection to people on planet earth and are never said to be what they will experience in the resurrection. None are raised to extinction. Condemnation is not defined as extinction. Destruction was never defined as the second death. Clearly those who have "perished" (died) will be raised.
What is the second death? Annihilationists claim that it is when one is resurrected but dies again that makes no sense. I find it strange that the second death is made to be literal by annihilationists inside book full of symbolic/figurative language. I find no mention of two deaths anywhere taught in the OT. I never found it taught in any of the teachings of Paul or in the teachings of Jesus as to this dying twice. Annihilationists focus on "perish" and "destruction" to refer somehow to one being forever annihilated but those words always precede the resurrection to people on planet earth and are never said to be what they will experience in the resurrection. None are raised to extinction. Condemnation is not defined as extinction. Destruction was never defined as the second death. Clearly those who have "perished" (died) will be raised.
Again, I find no mention of two deaths anyone in the OT. I thought the wages of sin was death. Do sin wages need to be paid twice now? God warned Adam that if he eat of the fruit then dust he shall return but not twice. One verse that religion twists is Hebrews 9:27 that clearly says, “And as it is appointed unto men ONCEto die, but after this the judgment.” When I believed annihilationism was for me to get around the above verse by arguing Hebrews 6:4 about those “once” enlightened claiming that one can be enlightened more than once, so death can be more than once too. Nice try! However, Hebrews 9:27 is quite clear, “die and then judgment” and not “die and then judgment and die again.” It clearly shows that what follows death is not death. The judgment of Hebrews 9:27 was not the white throne judgment. See my video on Hebrews 9:27:
Whenever I see death in scripture in a figurative or spiritual sense is when I go looking for something “new” to follow. Example would be that our old man was crucified and now we have a new man. Those who died in Christ (the all) are those that are said to have become a new creation in 2nd Corinthians 5:17. Only religion reads the new creatures as those who believed but that robs the word “therefore” in verse 17 pointing back to verse 14. Religion zeroes in on the word “if” of verse 17 as a condition when clearly it was not a condition from verse 14 on. "If one died for all" is clearly not an "iffy" statement. Christ did die for all.
I read the “second death” in Revelation 20 that I would assume the “kings of the earth” in chapter 19 were tossed into but the same “kings of the earth” are read about in chapter 21:24 as bringing honor and glory into the city. I had one man tried claiming that the "kings of the earth" of chapter 19 were not the same "kings of the earth" of chapter 21??? This means the "kings of the earth" of chapter 6 were not the same "kings of the earth" of chapter 19, and were not the same "kings of the earth" of chapter 21??? The "kings of the earth" are mentioned 9 times in Revelation but this man said they were not the same?? Imagine me writing a letter mentioning the name Fred Johnson 9 times inside that letter but some else comes along and claims that a different Fred Johnson was implied in each paragraph. I think we would get confused.
I am seeing a victorious gospel and not some literal event taking place in the future where a real Jerusalem city comes down. If you want to believe it is all literal then be sure to make every reference in Revelation as literal and you will see how silly your beliefs will look.
We have death in chapter 20 but chapter 21 begins with:
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Most Baptists and others I know of do not believe they will be resurrected to go to the "New Jerusalem" that is described on planet earth in Revelation 21. How can "nations of the saved" go in and out if this city if it was not on planet earth (Nations exist on earth)? It is clearly called the New Earth. Are we talking about a literal new earth where God will explode this one and start over? Can this not be figurative to the world we might now be a part of in the new covenant? We have got to start thinking outside the religious box.
Will there literally be a new heaven and a new earth or is this a colorful description of the victory of the gospel? Could not the heaven and the earth before referring to the old covenant being passed away and the new ushered in? 2nd Peter 3:10 reads:
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
If you study the word "elements" is to see that it was tied to the Law and not planet earth (soil, tree, etc.) Being a literalist can cause some serious problems. I used to view 2nd Peter 3:10 as a nuclear war. It is only to follow the destruction of the "elements" that we read in 2nd Peter 3:
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Be very careful being a "religious" literalist because you will see this new heaven and new earth through the eyes of performance oriented religion.
No more death in Revelation 21 and that is what Paul said more than once but Paul never preached a resurrection to be annihilated as annihilationists read into verses. I do not believe that "hades" still exists because the moment we die now is to be caught up with those who were held captive in hades before Christ. Death has no hold on us. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That would be another blog but wanted to make a quick point.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
If you study the word "elements" is to see that it was tied to the Law and not planet earth (soil, tree, etc.) Being a literalist can cause some serious problems. I used to view 2nd Peter 3:10 as a nuclear war. It is only to follow the destruction of the "elements" that we read in 2nd Peter 3:
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
Be very careful being a "religious" literalist because you will see this new heaven and new earth through the eyes of performance oriented religion.
No more death in Revelation 21 and that is what Paul said more than once but Paul never preached a resurrection to be annihilated as annihilationists read into verses. I do not believe that "hades" still exists because the moment we die now is to be caught up with those who were held captive in hades before Christ. Death has no hold on us. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That would be another blog but wanted to make a quick point.
In Christ, all shall be made alive (no more death). Death is said to be destroyed, and the second death in my opinion is death to the first death and not a universal annihilationism. The only annihilationism I believe in is that the “old man” and the "old system" was crucified, buried, and old covenant is no more as such things are to never be resurrected again. See my blog on the elements burned with a fervent heat:
I see “former things passed away” and “I make all things new” in Revelation 21 to be nothing new to Paul who said that we are “new creatures in Christ” and that “old things have passed away and behold all things have become new.”
Death in scripture is also seen as separation and not annihilationism. In Revelation 21 and 22 is to see those "outside" the gates of the city that implies a separation or an exclusion but not annihilationism. We have to be careful how we define words inside a book filled with figurative language and symbols.
I see Revelation as the triumph of Christ. I see that in Paul's writings in Colossians 1:20:
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
I do not believe Jesus annihilates "all things" that oppose Him to have "all things" that do not oppose Him reconciled. All things in earth and heaven reconciled. All things have become new. We are so busy trying to make Revelation literal that we miss out.
I see Revelation showing absolute victory as Paul uttered that in 1st Corinthians 15 where all things we be put under His feet (submission and not annihilationism). I see this language in Colossians 2:15:
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
If Calvary did not take care of sin then wiping people will not either as the OT proved that. I believe Jesus is the "Savior of the world." I believe that Jesus came to save lives and not destroy them as clearly stated in Luke 9. I believe Jesus was the Lamb that had taken away the sin of the world. I believe Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. I believe God is reconciled to the world. I believe God is not imputing sin unto the world. I believe Jesus died for enemies according to Romans 5. I believe love endures all things. I believe love fails not. I believe mercy endures always. Annihilationism is a strange fit to all of that.
I do not read Revelation with the eyes of gloom and doom. I believe much of the things shared are past. Jesus told them that He would come quickly. Only religion turns Jesus into an uneducated person by making us think that “I come quickly” refers to 2000+ years. This also happens when people make something a literal event that must be seen with eyes and refuse to see it any other way. You can keep preaching, "Jesus is coming soon" or "quickly" but you will be uttering what religion has been uttering for such a long time now. All the date settings for Jesus return comes and goes. I guarantee you that you will not see anything in your lifetime. We love sensationalism as boring religion needs some spice to it, so gloom and doom and floating off to heaven is the message people love to hear because their religion now seems to have purpose.
Religion attempts to say that “a 1000 years is but as a day” but that is from God’s perspective and not ours. From our perspective a 1000 years is not quick at all and it certainly is not a day to us. Jesus was telling people in a language they could understand, “I come quickly.” To argue that Jesus meant, "A 1000 years are but as a day" was what He meant when He said, "I come quickly" to finite people is silly. I do not tell my wife, “I am going to the store to buy some milk and will be home soon” and then return 15 years later with the milk. I doubt my wife would say to me after 15 years, “Wow! That was quick!”
We read Revelation and try to make everything literal while missing out on the message of the victorious gospel. Keep that in mind when you read it.
Another thing about annihilationism is that they argue the OT and the removal of enemies as permanent extinction rather than their present removal from the land. What they argue makes no room for a future resurrection if they are now extinct. Your country can bomb its enemies and they would be considered no more but that does not mean extinction from the spiritual side of it.
Philippians 2:9-11 reads:
10 That at the name of Jesus every kneeshould bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Annihilationists will read the parallel verse in Isaiah 45:23-24:
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Ashamed does not mean annihilated. To try to prove it means annihilated is when the annihilationist will argue Isaiah 41:11:
11 Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be ashamed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish.
First of all, Paul was not arguing this or thinking this in Philippians 2:9-11 as only one can insert such an idea. This is not talking about a worldwide annihilationism but rather their enemies who were the Babylonians. Sorry, the Babylonians today will not be ashamed or confounded by your country.
The being ashamed had nothing to do with being annihilated but rather with their "conscious" defeat. It can be as an army fully defeated and those behind the attacks are ashamed and confounded.
Everything will come to nothing. This has nothing to do with a resurrection where they will die again nonsense of annihilationism. There is no second death in the OT. Isaiah 41:11 was not saying, “First they will confess…then they will be ashamed…then they will be as nothing…and then they will die.”
Their being “confounded” had nothing to do with being annihilated by God but rather their own folly had fallen back upon them.
One thing we have to remember is that Isaiah 45 is not speaking of endless extinction of enemies in general. The chapter ends with:
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
If the one group were permanently annihilated then did Israel's history prove that "all the seed of Israel be justified" permanently? If the one group were made permanently ashamed and confounded then will the glory be a permanent result to "all the seed of Israel"? No, they simply were rejoicing in "their" day, as they were boasting in the Lord. Israel in Romans 11 was blinded, hardened, given a spirit of slumber, and uprooted. I only see their present day enemies removed.
When you read in the OT about the wicked "no more" or that they "shall not be" is to ask, "Where shall they not be?" The answer is here on planet earth. If they go to nothingness then what is this resurrection of the dead? Just a bunch of religious word games.
When you read in the OT about the wicked "no more" or that they "shall not be" is to ask, "Where shall they not be?" The answer is here on planet earth. If they go to nothingness then what is this resurrection of the dead? Just a bunch of religious word games.
The words "cut off" in the OT do not mean annihilationism either because Jesus was said to be "cut off" in Daniel 9:26:
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
1st Samuel 20:15 reads:
But also thou shalt not cut off thy kindness from my house for ever: no, not when the LORD hath cut off the enemies of David every one from the face of the earth.
If anti-Christians "cut off" every believer from the face of the earth then does that argue for extinction? Only if you deny a resurrection.
The problem is that annihilationists use the OT where there was mystery and a lack of understanding and will force their views of the OT into the NT. There was no clear picture of the resurrection. Many believed it but it was not fully revealed.
Try finding one person who feared never being reunited with their dead loved one(s) anywhere in the NT. I do think religious people learn to be cold and calloused to those around them but the thought of not being with my family brings no joy or peace. The Book of Revelation is to be a blessing to those who read it? How in the world is the extermination of your family a blessing?
Just pay careful attention to what annihilationists have you read in the OT because they often refer to a “specific” people cut off from the land. They refer to a specific people destroyed or that have perished. Notice that we were dealing with a people back then removed from the earth, not some future resurrection or even some so-called second death.
Another strange argument by annihilationists is that they see damnation as referring to permanent extinction (fear Him who destroys both body and soul in Gehenna) that was referring to a physical death to a specific people alive and not some second death in the afterlife. If damnation means annihilationism then how could some have a “greater damnation (annihilationism)”? What degrees of extinct are there? See my blog on Gehenna:
I had one annihilationist tell me that the one beaten with “few stripes versus many stripes” referred to one taking longer to be annihilated as they are punished more than the other. I guess God leaves the one on the grill longer to think about what he/she had done before becoming extinct. This foolishness reminds me of a movie called, “My Cousin Vinny” where Vinny wanted to know if the pants he had on were OK to go deer hunting with the District Attorney. His fiance (animal lover) comes out and says, “Imagine you are a deer...you get thirsty…you put your lips to the cool water…BAM!! A bullet rips through your head leaving your brains into a bunch of little bloody pieces…Now I ask you, do you think the deer would care what pants the man had on who shot him?”
I ask you, do you think the man or woman who is being annihilated slowly will end up caring any different than the man or woman snuffed out quickly from existence? You are going to be extinct and those you wronged will never be made right. People commit suicide to get away from their emotional pain and God is supposedly doing the same in the spiritual realm to them, so nobody cares when they are extinct. Not sure what "God will render to EVERY man according to his deed" really implies if they are all equally annihilated. Not sure what "every man shall give an account" if he/she is permanently annihilated.
Annihilationists focus on the verses about losing your own soul as proof for annihilationism when it was dealing with physical life. See my blog on Matthew 16:25-26:
Annihilationists also focus on the broad road that leads to destruction as they read annihilationism into Matthew 7:13-14. They carry all these things from the shadows of the OT. See my blog on Matthew 7:13-14:
Another verse annihilationists use is 2ndThessalonians 1:8-9:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
The above verses had NOTHING to do with those who died. The above leaves no room for a resurrection and some so-called second death. The above verses do not even address all who ever have lived or those who died in the past. It was dealing only with a specific people that were "alive" during a specific time. It was not even addressing us today. Look at the context:
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
The “you” are ONLY the Thessalonians during this specific time and the “them” were specific people during that time who were ALIVE troubling them.
For years I would quote the above as proof for annihilationism. I started studying the passage and it dawned on me that the above verse had NOTHING to do with those who died, but only with those who were still alive upon the earth during "that" time.
Also, the Greek word for "everlasting" is incorrect, as the correct meaning is "age." Young's Literal Translation got it right when he translated it as:
who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
If you start studying aion and aionios then you will see how the word early on changed from age to everlasting/eternal/forever, but it simply does not mean that. Religion quotes Jesus that warned of "eternal fire" as proof but I will quote Jude 1:7 that used the exact same Greek word to describe the "eternal fire" that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah that clearly went out long ago. Jonah was said to be in the belly of the great fish “forever” (Heb. Olam that is the equivalent to the Greek), but Jonah was only in the belly 3 days.
who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,
If you start studying aion and aionios then you will see how the word early on changed from age to everlasting/eternal/forever, but it simply does not mean that. Religion quotes Jesus that warned of "eternal fire" as proof but I will quote Jude 1:7 that used the exact same Greek word to describe the "eternal fire" that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah that clearly went out long ago. Jonah was said to be in the belly of the great fish “forever” (Heb. Olam that is the equivalent to the Greek), but Jonah was only in the belly 3 days.
The destruction was NEVER an after death experience and it was not to be experienced by every unbeliever who ever lived. People say that “vengeance” will be taken upon those that “know not God” of all who ever lived (extra words added to the verse not stated). Think about that for a moment. The people who never even heard of the bible is when God is going to come upon them with terrible vengeance and will shed their blood and make them non-existent? You can keep that religious “god.” What Thessalonians is arguing is much like what we read about those in the OT. They will no longer be your "living" enemies.
Again, 2nd Thessalonians was not a resurrection to be destroyed but a people destroyed during that time on planet earth. Also, destruction can refer to ruin and not always death (see Strong’s Concordance), so let's try not to always be so gloomy when it comes to Scripture. 1st Thessalonians 5:3 reads:
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
The word "punished" in 2ndThess. 1:9 is not a word that means "physical pain" but pain could be implied. The word there means "judgment" and "to pay." The ones troubling them and obey not the gospel (living people addressed) would be the ones who would have sudden destruction falling upon them (the ones who "obey not/believe not" the gospel) and the destruction was not after they died and God threw them into the lake of fire where they die twice forever nonsense. These were even the warnings given in the book of Hebrews. It had nothing to do with an afterlife experience. It was a destruction the "earth" (specific nation or nations) would be facing, but not an eternal one or even some second death annihilationism, but one that would last for a period of time. This destruction was not to all men everywhere either, but it was a warning to the land of the living, and such were directly tied to the unbelievers that were troubling the Thessalonians in the context.
The "you" in verse 6 was the Thessalonians. No Thessalonians is suffering trouble today. It was "them" that were told that those troubling "them" (not you) would experience this recompense, but again, that was talking about the land of the living and not to all future generations. One thing quite clear is that it was not talking about some after death experience.
To argue that destruction means annihilationism is plain foolish. Paul handed the fornicator for the “destruction of the flesh” but that the spirit among the Corinthians might be saved/preserved. The destruction of the flesh was for correction and not annihilation.
It is very hard talking to an annihilationist because they see almost every use of the words: perish, destroyed, devoured, destruction, die, death, and damnation as extinction. I do not even bother talking to them about it because I feel I am talking to a wall. If they want to believe in a victorious-less Christ then that is their problem and not mine. I believe all are made alive in Christ and not made dead twice as payment for sin. God is not imputing sin unto the world but clearly He still does by what religion teaches.
Romans 11:32:
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
The verse is changed by religion to read that God concluded them all in unbelief so that He can extend His mercy to all beyond Israel. However, unbelievers have their part in the lake of fire that leaves me confused. If unbelievers are annihilated then how is God showing mercy? How does His love fail not? How did Christ die for His enemies and to what purpose was that death for them when they are annihilated? How does Christ love His enemies when they are annihilated? I do not show my love for my son by annihilating him. Enemies might refuse Christ but that does not mean Christ annihilates them for it. They are the lost coin that never lost its value. God has been reconciled to the world even though the world might not have been reconciled to Him (2ndCorinthians 5:19). Annihilationism was not adding up for me.
Paul said to walk after the flesh is "death" compared to walking after the Spirit is "life and peace" in Romans 8. Death was not seen as extinction but rather the life one was experiencing. Ephesians 2:1 teaches that we "were dead in trespasses and sins" but that clearly does not mean extinct. The one who does not love his brother is said to "abide in death" that does not mean annihilationism. Sara's womb was said to be dead that does not mean non-existent. Jesus was said to have died upon Calvary but how was He that same day in paradise with the thief if death implies extinction? This is where the word game is played by religion with the changing of "I say unto you, Today you shall be with me in paradise" to "I say unto you today, you shall be with me in paradise (some future day)."
I do believe annihilationism runs too far with the words perish and destruction. Look at Job 9:22:
22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
God destroys the perfect and the wicked into total extinction? Look at Job 34:15:
15 All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
All flesh does die and we do turn to dust. Adam was told that he would return to dust but annihilated forever?
Did Job believe he would be annihilated when he said this in Job 7:
7 O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
8 The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
9 As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
10 He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
Look at Job 10:
21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.
Righteous Job annihilated? It rather sounds that Job did not know of a resurrection. Are we to assume that Job would see no more good? We read elsewhere in the OT about the dead unable to praise and how the dead remember "no more." This was simply the picture they had of death. David did say that the dead would rise and praise Him when others did not.
Job says this in chapter 19:
10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.
Sorry, when you see such words as destroyed, death, removed, and gone in the OT is not to rush to the thought "permanent extinction." There are verses like the above that seem to indicate it but Paul makes it quite clear that "all will be made alive" and not only a select few.
We have to be careful because Scriptures can be twisted to say anything. I can make it teach that one will never physically die if I wanted. Jesus said that if one "keeps" His sayings shall never die (once, not two times as annihilationists teach). Solomon said that in the pathway of righteousness is no death (Proverbs 12:28). If we take those verses at face value then I proved present immortality. How about never having a disease in life? I can quote David for proof. This means you will never suffer the cold or flu again. I think you know better. I thought I knew better when formerly embracing the teachings of annihilationism.
Let's face it, we have verses that appear to be universal as well in the OT not teaching annihilationism:
27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.
29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul. (Psalm 22:27-29).
A parallel in my opinion to the above would be Revelation 5:13:
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Universalists have their list of OT verses they believe proves the salvation of all.
Annihilationists believe that God is being merciful in destroying the sinner. They claim that God has to destroy the sinner because he/she rejected the gospel. They believe God cannot simply be merciful to the sinner and pardon all sins (that actually was the result of Calvary and not our act of believing) but will instead be merciful in destroying them. They believe the sinner rejecting the gospel did so by his/her freewill and God will not violate that freewill and forgive and save them. However, my question is what sinner possessing a freewill will say, "Annihilate me God"? Do they have a freewill choice in the matter? If God is going to violate their freewill by destroying them then why can't He violate their freewill in sparing them? Let's face it, I did not sin in the Garden as I did not exercise my freewill, so why do I have to "in Adam all die"? I did not choose death but another chose it for me. Why cannot another chose another option on my behalf? Praise the Lord, Christ was the undoing of Adam. As I died in Adam apart from my freewill is to be made alive in Christ apart from my freewill.
For me to live is Christ, and to die is annihilation? No, it is gain (Philippians 1:21).
You will find annihilationism camping out heavily in the OT. Immortality was not a huge topic in the OT. Look at what Paul said in 2nd Timothy 1:10:
10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
He brought it to "light." I quoted a few verses to show how those in the OT viewed death. They were not shouting, "Death, where is thy victory?" It was not a clear cut topic that we have in the NT.
Again, the good news brought to light "life and immortality" that was not clear in the OT. Look at Hebrews 2:15:
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Fear of death is removed through the resurrection. I do believe in the death no more and the sorrow no more. Paul told us to not "sorrow" as those who have no hope (1st Thessalonians 4:13). Those who have no hope does not mean that they are "hopeless and doomed" but they have no hope (confident expectation) of the resurrection. The resurrection back then is not anything like all the bizarre teachings going on today. Everyone today thinks they go to heaven when they die. You will not find that teaching back then. The resurrection and immortality was brought to light by the good news. Those who did hear the good news or believed it were those who faced death with fear. Sad, but most hellfire minded Christians die with more fear than that of the unbeliever.
Annihilationists have the strange belief concerning the love of God that hellfire forever advocates do. God's love will annihilate you? God's love fails. I can love better than their "god" can. Again, see my blog on Gehenna:
Paul tells us that nothing shall separate us from His love in Romans 8. Religion reads Romans 8 as to believers only. The God who "so loved the world" was never a love that would prevent Him from separating from people. Only those who believe will be loved by God differently than those who do not believe??? So we have God who loved His enemies so much that He died for them to only have them annihilated seems awfully weird to me. God who is not imputing the sins to the world and has been reconciled to the world will annihilate the world of unbelievers??? Annihilate them for what? Something has to be imputed now to annihilate them.
God will annihilate those whom He "so loved" (John 3:16)??? Sorry, I see those in Romans 8 who "live after the flesh shall die" are still those that even "death" shall not separate them from His love. If God could be reconciled to such people who are not even believers (2nd Cor. 5:19) and that His love died for them while they were UNGODLY and ENEMIES then it is a bit odd to say that death will bring their extinction. Love hides a multitude of sins but I guess unbelievers have gone beyond the multitude. Love is patient but I guess God's patience can run out with a man who lived 20 years who rejected their message.
Annihilationism did to me what other "isms" had done. They get you agreeing from the start and they keep going where you feel overwhelmed that you just heard truth when all they are doing is getting you to see words from their angle. I know people who have embraced annihilationism that later had questions popping into their heads making them question this belief of annihilationism. I had that done to me with Calvinism and even Lordship Salvation. Watch a Jehovah Witness share many verses as they try convincing the person that what they have shared is 100% biblical. We simply begin seeing scripture their way. Every time we see the words "perish" is to think that such a person is annihilated. This is the same thing where hellfire advocates see the word "perish" and see "frying consciously in pain."
Annihilationism did to me what other "isms" had done. They get you agreeing from the start and they keep going where you feel overwhelmed that you just heard truth when all they are doing is getting you to see words from their angle. I know people who have embraced annihilationism that later had questions popping into their heads making them question this belief of annihilationism. I had that done to me with Calvinism and even Lordship Salvation. Watch a Jehovah Witness share many verses as they try convincing the person that what they have shared is 100% biblical. We simply begin seeing scripture their way. Every time we see the words "perish" is to think that such a person is annihilated. This is the same thing where hellfire advocates see the word "perish" and see "frying consciously in pain."
I believe I shared enough. The soul that sins shall die (in Adam all die) as Adam was the living soul but Jesus the quickening spirit. In Adam all die but in Christ all shall be made alive. Christ died for all and all died. If we died with Him then we shall live with Him. If we were planted in the likeness of His death (we all were 2nd Cor. 5:14) then we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection. The bible never conditioned resurrection upon believing it. The resurrection is the direct result of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ on behalf of all.
Annihilationism is simply a false teaching less extreme than the hellfire forever advocates being taught today but it is still a false teaching.